Hazing. Think About It.

PikeRugby2002 · #1 02-22-2004, 06:13 AM

I see no reason for hazing in fraternities, sororities, etc. It only shows a lack of self-confidence on the part of the hazer and hazee... Why would you want to condition a fraternity to be full of a bunch of insecure babies? Oh, and I love the arguments for hazing... like they won't appreciate it if they don't own it, it builds brotherhood, muscle memory, etc. All of these arguments come from childish stupidity. Can someone not earn brother-or-sisterhood through accomplishment? relationships? merit? responsibility? Not if you think like a 6-year-old. Builds brotherhood? I am a quadruplet and have had 3 brothers my entire life... never have we felt the need to treat one another like dogs or slaves in order to grow closer to each other. Maybe some of these idiots out there who think hazing is so cool should try talking to their pledges to get to know them. Another classic is "If I had to do it, they should too." Real smart thinking? Maybe if you want to build hate within your fraternity and have loyalty only within each pledge class. And, chances are... you hated it. You were just insecure and scared enough to take it, so you are embarrassed to admit the obvious flaws. I have never heard of senselessly hurting someone, emotionally or physically, to promote love and unity and loyalty. I'd be willing to bet that the amazing men who founded most traditional fraternities would have never imagined that they could turn into avenues for insecure, incompetent faggots to get their jollies by hazing the new kids. That being said, I do love traditions and fun, and I wouldn't classify a lot of things as hazing that insurance companies do. But, anything that could hurt someone is ridiculous and immature.
In my fraternity, I was never hazed. I had responsibilities and the like, but wasn't hazed. We don't haze, yet we are the most dominant Fraternity on campus, and have amazing brotherhood and participation. Hazing hurts the entire Greek system.
If you do have some arguments that you use to justify hazing, I’d like to hear them. Please reply. But, you might want to read some of the other posts on this section of the website first. The ends do not justify the means... And, even if they did, the ends that result from the means of hazing are undesirable – segregation of pledge class, resentment, hate, distrust, etc. Think About it.

Senusret I · #2 02-22-2004, 09:33 AM

While I am not one hundred percent certain, I am pretty sure that we have discussed this before....have you tried doing a search?

Tom Earp · #3 02-22-2004, 12:23 PM

Very well said. But try to find the previous thread if possible. If not it still shows very good common sense and what Being a True Greek Brother/Sister should really mean!

hoosier · #4 02-23-2004, 09:59 PM

I'm glad your chapter does not haze, and I'm sad that some still do.

Your comments lead me to ask a question:

"If hazing is so bad, how has the fraternity system survived for over 150 years?"

In my own fraternitiy, founded in 1899 by five guys, a sixth guy was late for the founding meeting, so they made him a pledge and immediately hazed him. I think they had some peeled grapes, which they told the blind-folded guy were eyeballs, and made him eat them. (Or maybe that was the initiation at my HS Latin Club).

Anyway, fraternities for over a hundred years have been hazing - and doing pretty well.

Can you name other campus organizations, lasting a hundred years?

The days of hazing are over, and damn the chapters who are getting caught hazing, and showering us with bad publicity - even proudly on MTV.

What are your thoughts on why we did so well for so long?

decadence · #5 02-24-2004, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier:
I'm glad your chapter does not haze, and I'm sad that some still do.

Your comments lead me to ask a question:

"If hazing is so bad, how has the fraternity system survived for over 150 years?"

In my own fraternitiy, founded in 1899 by five guys, a sixth guy was late for the founding meeting, so they made him a pledge and immediately hazed him. I think they had some peeled grapes, which they told the blind-folded guy were eyeballs, and made him eat them. (Or maybe that was the initiation at my HS Latin Club).

Anyway, fraternities for over a hundred years have been hazing - and doing pretty well.

Can you name other campus organizations, lasting a hundred years?

The days of hazing are over, and damn the chapters who are getting caught hazing, and showering us with bad publicity - even proudly on MTV.

What are your thoughts on why we did so well for so long?

Hoosier, do you have multiple personality disorder or something?

ETA (later): Ok I DO see now what you were trying to do there but dayamm you did it in a sensationalist way!

PikeRugby2002 · #6 02-24-2004, 05:15 PM

I see what your are saying to some degree, but the type of thing you mentioned is not really what I would consider hazing, more tradition and fun... (it wasn't meant to severely hurt or injure) I highly doubt that the early days of fraternities involved a lot of bows-and-tows and drinking until you puke. Anyway, to answer your question, I think fraternities survived their hazing years because of insecurity.

Tom Earp · #7 02-24-2004, 05:30 PM

Hazing I am sure when there was hazing is far different than what We as Current Greeks have become used to seeing on the News!

If you go back and see pictures of the Founders they are all nicely dressed. Whether it was for show, I cannot say, but The Mores' of the time of inception are far from the ass beating, drinking till puke, etc that has become the norm at some Chapters!

No one is more disheartened than me to find out that some of My Brothers of LXA do this at their Chapters.

I am proud that LXA was the first one to do away with Pledge and introduce Associate, institued a No Hazing Clause in our Constitution, and do come down hard if a major case of Hazng is in progress!

Hazing is becoming archaic and until those Morons figure this out, it will continue sad to say!

Never understood why someone wanted to have a new young man join then beat his ass or make him drink until he might die!

Does this make a True Brother or just keep this idiocy going?

Now according to OUR Internatioal, we cannot even have study hours as that is hazing!

I am not sure, but isnt the reason a person goes to college is to Graduate and prepare themselves for the future? How do they do that with out having the grades to do so and keep Active Status with Their Greek Org.?

hoosier · #8 02-24-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

[i] I am not sure, but isnt the reason a person goes to college is to Graduate and prepare themselves for the future? [/B]

In my dictionary, a definition: "College - a fountain of knowledge where everyone goes to drink."

hoosier · #9 02-24-2004, 11:18 PM

What, exactly, are

"a lot of bows-and-tows" ?

Tom Earp · #10 02-24-2004, 11:49 PM

WELL HOOSIER,

we/I am waiting with baited breath! I am serious now !!!!!!!

What do Bows and Ties Mean???

Da, look at old Pictures!

When dress was the style! While we call it FormaL, IT WAS THE NORM!

Class being the Norm not the averrage.

jmuphigam · #11 02-25-2004, 08:55 PM

Tom-

I also had no idea what this referred to, so i did a little looking on the internet...after finding many sites for dog grooming, i came across what i think he was talking about...Bows and Toes is a back excercise where you lie on your stomach with your arms and feet up in the air, or your elbows and toes in the air...hence 'bows and toes

adpiucf · #12 02-25-2004, 09:55 PM

Mob mentality makes people do foolish things they wouldn't ordinarily do. The need for acceptance is so great that common sense takes a backseat to wanting to fit in with the group. This perpetuates cycles of violence, hazing and crime in all sorts of peer groups.

I highly doubt the men and women who founded our GLOs in the 1800's-early 1900's intended to paddle the backsides of their initiates, nor lead them blindfolded through a cold and wet forest, eat bugs or consume alcohol until they suffered a brain hemorrage. Back then, the thinking was to create an exclusive society dedicated to the mental, moral, academic and social improvement of its membership.

Boys will be boys, and military hazing is certainly nothing new. This has spread to the fraternities, and in time, has also spread to the sororities. To inspire loyalty and leadership, you need only be a role model.

If you say that hazing worked for you, that's great. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not going to agree either. What started off as innocent can turn into something very ugly when placed in the hands of a sadistic or conniving member. And everyone jumps on board. The mob mentality. How else do you explain Nazi Germany? And no, I am not comparing a GLO to the Nazis. But I am comparing how people of all shapes, colors and ages strive to fit in. Even the non-conformist has a peer group: The goths, the alternative kids, the punks, the stoners, the socialites. Whether or not they want to admit it, we all fit into some category. Or more than one category.

But remember-- it just takes one idiot going too far or one new member getting injured/killed/bringing on a lawsuit to ruin a tradition of 100+ years. Why bring down your chapter or your entire organization. Promote a positive message. It will increase the worth and prestige of your group. Everyone will know of you and want to be like you. That doesn't mean they get to join. But it does mean that the privilege of membership is something worth striving for.

sairose · #13 02-25-2004, 11:55 PM

I agree 100% with RugbyPike. He's a good friend of mine and we go to the same college.

Pikes here are the top fraternity in all aspects of Greek life. They are truly gentlemen, and respectable guys. They also don't haze. They continually have the biggest pledge classes on campus.

The fraternities here that DO haze tend to have a lot more pledges depledge, or not get that many in the first place. And I can't say I blame them.

My biological family never hazed me to make me closer to them. They simply loved me and taught me what I needed to know in life. So why would I expect my SAI sisters to do any different? We don't haze either...and as a result, we also have a strong chapter.