What do you think of this Kerry news?

[docetboy]

Once this picture gets into the mainstream...featuring just how close Kerry and Hanoi Jane were.

About Hanoi Jane Fonda: http://snopes.com/military/fonda.htm




For those of you thinking it might be fake, Snopes points out the following:

Origins: We're not absolutely sure of the origins and dating of this photograph, which purports to show Massachusetts Senator (and the potential 2004 Democratic nominee for President) John Kerry at a September 1970 anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, but much evidence points to its authenticity:
The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation.

----- The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970 (see photo at right.)

----- The Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), an anti-war group with which Kerry was affiliated, held a rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, on 7 September 1970.

----- Actress Jane Fonda was present at the Valley Forge rally. (She was not yet known as "Hanoi Jane," however, as her infamous trip to North Vietnam did not occur until two years later.)

http://snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp

[The1calledTKE]

It could be someone that looks like him too. This is like the whole thing that Bush went awol when he was in Alabama.

I don't think he would lose veterns support seeing he actually fought in vietnam and didn't use his dads friends to help get him in the national guard so he wouldn't have to go.

If Kerry was so anit-war he would have used his rich parents to get out of going by joining the national guard like Dubya did.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by The1calledTKE


I don't think he would lose veterns support seeing he actually fought in vietnam and didn't use his dads friends to help get him in the national guard so he wouldn't have to go.

I know too many Viet Nam veterans who have already called him a fake for his admittedly plaguerized accounts of atrocities. Not a one of them plan to support him.

Just my 2¢

[The1calledTKE]

Originally posted by honeychile
I know too many Viet Nam veterans who have already called him a fake for his admittedly plaguerized accounts of atrocities. Not a one of them plan to support him.

Just my 2¢

True some may not, like some won't that think Bush went awol. I think there will be more veterns voting for Kerry this year than usual for a democrat simply because he did fight even though he probably could have gotten out of it.

[Angels&Arrows]

Clinton ran to Canada to avoid the war... and was elected President for two terms!

Kerry did serve in 'Nam... and when he came back he joined VVAW.

Say what you will about Bush joining the Air National Guard... He served his country at that time, when others were running away. I know several members of the National Guard that would be very upset if you said they were not serving their country, becuase they joined the NG, instead of the Army, Navy, Marines or Air Force.. Members of the National Guard are here to protect our country, in our country... That does not make their jobs any less important, than those who serve overseas.

[xo_kathy]

I thought it was well known that while Kerry did serve in Vietnam, he was against the war as well. This isn't news, right?

And I highly doubt he will lose ALL Veteran support b/c he attended a peace rally...

[docetboy]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
I thought it was well known that while Kerry did serve in Vietnam, he was against the war as well. This isn't news, right?

And I highly doubt he will lose ALL Veteran support b/c he attended a peace rally...

It's the tie-in with Jane Fonda, the woman thousands of veterans believe should of been charged with Treason.

[DeltAlum]

I haven't really decided who I should support in this election year, however, this attempted political character assasination really ticks me off.

Kerry served, apparantely with distinction, in Vietnam while some folks joined the National Guard -- which is pretty much what kids did in order to stay out of S.E. Asia in those days. In my opinion, he earned his right to feel any way he wants about that conflict. He didn't stand on the sidelines and criticize. And, by the way, Naval officers aren't drafted -- since Kerry was one, he either enlisted or went through the ROTC ranks.

We talk about people who have fought so that we can have the freedom to question our government -- to protect our Constitutional Rights. That's EXACTLY what he did.

Read and seriously consider the following, in which Ms. Fonda (not one of my favorite people, by the way) comments on this:

(I added the bold type)


Updated: 08:33 AM EST
Jane Fonda Defends John Kerry

(Feb. 12) - The publication of an old photo of Jane Fonda and John Kerry at an anti-Vietnam War rally is raising questions about the antiwar activities of the Democratic presidential front-runner.

Kerry, a much decorated Vietnam War veteran, became an antiwar activist after he returned to the United States.

The photograph, taken on Labor Day 1970, shows Fonda at an antiwar rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. Kerry, who at the time led a group called Vietnam Veterans Against The War, can be seen in background behind her.

Kerry's campaign confirmed that he was at the rally and spoke.

The conservative Internet site NewsMax.com published the three-decades-old photo Monday as President Bush was facing continuing questions about his attendance record for National Guard duty during the Vietnam era.

But aides stressed that Kerry and Fonda were only acquaintances, and the meeting took place two years before Fonda took a controversial trip behind enemy lines and posed for pictures on a North Vietnam army anti-aircraft gun which prompted her angry detractors to dub her "Hanoi Jane."

Rep. Sam Johnson, R-Texas, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, told the Washington Times that Kerry's attendance at the rally with Fonda "symbolizes how two-faced he is, talking about his war reputation, which is questionable on the one hand, and then coming out against our veterans who were fighting over there on the other."

Kerry enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1966 and served as the officer of a swift boat that patrolled the Mekong Delta. He left Vietnam in 1969 after being wounded three times. He was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple hearts.

His campaign Web site says Kerry became an antiwar demonstrator because he believed that decisions "were being made to protect those in positions of authority in Washington at the expense of the soldiers carrying on the fighting in Vietnam."

In 1971, Kerry and other veterans threw their military decorations and dog tags onto the steps of the Capitol.

"This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic," Fonda said of Kerry's antiwar group.

Fonda also dismissed attempts to link Kerry to her controversial antiwar past with the photograph as "a dirty black propaganda tactic."

"My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie," she told CNN Wednesday. "Any attempts to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands.

"I'm tired of the government lying. I'm tired of people desperately pulling out anything that they can do to hurt another candidate, and I think that the American people feel that way, too," she said. "It's a bunch of hogwash."

She also said that she does not recall meeting Kerry during the antiwar movement, although she said she did meet him years later after he became a senator and she was married to Ted Turner, who founded CNN but no longer has any management role with the network.

Kerry aides said he did not support Fonda's trip to Vietnam, an action for which many veterans still refuse to forgive her more than 30 years later.

On the campaign trail, Kerry frequently talks about both his war record and his antiwar activities after coming home, and he has said he is proud of both.

But his so-called association with Fonda has begun to draw fire from conservatives and veterans.

"It bothered us, anyone who associated themselves with Jane Fonda, with (her husband)Tom Hayden, with the antiwar movement," said Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-California, a former Navy pilot shot down in 1972.

"We just wanted to do our job, complete our mission for our country that sent us and come back alive. And having people like Sen. Kerry protest that was kind of a slap in the face to us."

But the president of the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, Bobby Muller, said Kerry has strong support among Vietnam vets.

"We have been contacted by veterans across the country [asking], 'How do I connect to the Kerry campaign?'" he said. "I have not seen in the 26 years that I've been in Washington, ever, the kind of dynamic and energizing of a Vietnam veteran community in this country as I am right now."


02-12-04 06:13 EST

To quote an overused, but still thoughtful old joke:

Question: What's the difference between (George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Dan Quayle -- you fill in the blank) and Jane Fonda?

Answer: Jane Fonda has been to Viet Nam.

[Rudey]

She deserves the death penalty.

-Rudey
--And I don't even support it.

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I haven't really decided who I should support in this election year, however, this attempted political character assasination really ticks me off.

Kerry served, apparantely with distinction, in Vietnam while some folks joined the National Guard -- which is pretty much what kids did in order to stay out of S.E. Asia in those days. In my opinion, he earned his right to feel any way he wants about that conflict. He didn't stand on the sidelines and criticize. And, by the way, Naval officers aren't drafted -- since Kerry was one, he either enlisted or went through the ROTC ranks.

We talk about people who have fought so that we can have the freedom to question our government -- to protect our Constitutional Rights. That's EXACTLY what he did.

Read and seriously consider the following, in which Ms. Fonda (not one of my favorite people, by the way) comments on this:


Updated: 08:33 AM EST
Jane Fonda Defends John Kerry

(Feb. 12) - The publication of an old photo of Jane Fonda and John Kerry at an anti-Vietnam War rally is raising questions about the antiwar activities of the Democratic presidential front-runner.

Kerry, a much decorated Vietnam War veteran, became an antiwar activist after he returned to the United States.

The photograph, taken on Labor Day 1970, shows Fonda at an antiwar rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. Kerry, who at the time led a group called Vietnam Veterans Against The War, can be seen in background behind her.

Kerry's campaign confirmed that he was at the rally and spoke.

The conservative Internet site NewsMax.com published the three-decades-old photo Monday as President Bush was facing continuing questions about his attendance record for National Guard duty during the Vietnam era.

But aides stressed that Kerry and Fonda were only acquaintances, and the meeting took place two years before Fonda took a controversial trip behind enemy lines and posed for pictures on a North Vietnam army anti-aircraft gun which prompted her angry detractors to dub her "Hanoi Jane."

Rep. Sam Johnson, R-Texas, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, told the Washington Times that Kerry's attendance at the rally with Fonda "symbolizes how two-faced he is, talking about his war reputation, which is questionable on the one hand, and then coming out against our veterans who were fighting over there on the other."

"Any attempts to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false."
-Jane Fonda

Kerry enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1966 and served as the officer of a swift boat that patrolled the Mekong Delta. He left Vietnam in 1969 after being wounded three times. He was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple hearts.

His campaign Web site says Kerry became an antiwar demonstrator because he believed that decisions "were being made to protect those in positions of authority in Washington at the expense of the soldiers carrying on the fighting in Vietnam."

In 1971, Kerry and other veterans threw their military decorations and dog tags onto the steps of the Capitol.

"This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic," Fonda said of Kerry's antiwar group.

Fonda also dismissed attempts to link Kerry to her controversial antiwar past with the photograph as "a dirty black propaganda tactic."

"My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie," she told CNN Wednesday. "Any attempts to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands.

"I'm tired of the government lying. I'm tired of people desperately pulling out anything that they can do to hurt another candidate, and I think that the American people feel that way, too," she said. "It's a bunch of hogwash."

She also said that she does not recall meeting Kerry during the antiwar movement, although she said she did meet him years later after he became a senator and she was married to Ted Turner, who founded CNN but no longer has any management role with the network.

Kerry aides said he did not support Fonda's trip to Vietnam, an action for which many veterans still refuse to forgive her more than 30 years later.

On the campaign trail, Kerry frequently talks about both his war record and his antiwar activities after coming home, and he has said he is proud of both.

But his so-called association with Fonda has begun to draw fire from conservatives and veterans.

"It bothered us, anyone who associated themselves with Jane Fonda, with (her husband)Tom Hayden, with the antiwar movement," said Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-California, a former Navy pilot shot down in 1972.

"We just wanted to do our job, complete our mission for our country that sent us and come back alive. And having people like Sen. Kerry protest that was kind of a slap in the face to us."

But the president of the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, Bobby Muller, said Kerry has strong support among Vietnam vets.

"We have been contacted by veterans across the country [asking], 'How do I connect to the Kerry campaign?'" he said. "I have not seen in the 26 years that I've been in Washington, ever, the kind of dynamic and energizing of a Vietnam veteran community in this country as I am right now."


02-12-04 06:13 EST

To quote an overused, but still thoughtful old joke:

Question: What's the difference between (George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Dan Quayle -- you fill in the blank) and Jane Fonda?

Answer: Jane Fonda has been to Viet Nam.

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by docetboy
It's the tie-in with Jane Fonda, the woman thousands of veterans believe should of been charged with Treason.

Ah, so he should have been on the lookout for Jane Fonda and not participated in a rally she was at *in case* she went to North Vietnam as a "traitor" 2 years in the future?

Oh, ok. It all makes sense why people shouldn't support him now...

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
She deserves the death penalty.

-Rudey
--And I don't even support it.

That's your right to believe and say. I don't care one way or another about her.

But this isn't really about Jane Fonda. It's about Senator Kerry.

[Sistermadly]

It's so funny to see just how desperate people on the Right are becoming.

They were in the same audience at a rally. I've been in the same audience as Ronald AND Nancy (fricking) Reagan -- and have been photographed with both -- but that doesn't make me a member of the GOP.

But you just go ahead and keep grasping at those straws, docet. Gosh knows most people on the right are going to need something to keep them occupied after the elections in November.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
That's your right to believe and say. I don't care one way or another about her.

But this isn't really about Jane Fonda. It's about Senator Kerry.

Hey I would commend him on his service, but I won't as long as he's associated with a woman that should have been shot.

-Rudey
--By shot I don't mean anything dirty

[DeltAlum]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by docetboy
Once this picture gets into the mainstream...featuring just how close Kerry and Hanoi Jane were.

About Hanoi Jane Fonda: http://snopes.com/military/fonda.htm




For those of you thinking it might be fake, Snopes points out the following:

Origins: We're not absolutely sure of the origins and dating of this photograph, which purports to show Massachusetts Senator (and the potential 2004 Democratic nominee for President) John Kerry at a September 1970 anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, but much evidence points to its authenticity:
The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation.

----- The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970

The Kerry Campaign has confirmed that the candidate was at the rally and spoke there.

In terms of "how close" they were, consider this. You can see, with no photographic expertise, that Kerry is at least two to three rows behind Fonda in what appears to be a large crowd.

Notice how out of focus his face is. Because it is fairly clear that the shot was taken outside in reasonably bright sunshine, that indicates at least two things:

1) It was probably shot with a telephoto lens from some distance away, and

2) that even under those (sunshine) conditions which expand what we call "depth of field" (two points between which a camera lens will capture its subject in hard focus -- the forground and background will be in soft focus), his face is in soft focus. What that tells those of us who make our living around lenses is that, while the use of telephoto generally decreases depth of field, the higher number fstop used in bright sunshine increases it.

OK, I admit that's confusing. Here's what it means, though. Kerry was not "with" Jane Fonda at this rally. He was sitting somewhere in the crowd several feet behind her.

My only point is this: The picture proves that Kerry was (admittedly) at the same rally -- to say, as it does above -- that it shows how "close" the two were is highly misleading.

Edited to add that the angle of the camera (shooting from "our" right to left) makes it look like Kerry is closer to Fonda as well. In reality, he is at least two to three (or maybe one or two more) people to her right, our left.

So, that puts him about three (horizontal for the sake of the pic) rows behind and at least three (vertical) rows to her right.

Is that "close" in the context of friends in a crowd. I wouldn't say so.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate propaganda tactics like this -- no matter who they're used against or for.

[Rudey]

How come Kerry didn't move away from that rally when he found out about her?

Was she just like any other ordinary person and able to sit anywhere she wanted or would people who sat even 2 rows from her be somewhat not-ordinary?

-Rudey
--Wouldn't it be hilarious if we revoked his citizenship? hahaha

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeltAlum

Originally posted by docetboy
Once this picture gets into the mainstream...featuring just how close Kerry and Hanoi Jane were.

About Hanoi Jane Fonda: http://snopes.com/military/fonda.htm




For those of you thinking it might be fake, Snopes points out the following:

Origins: We're not absolutely sure of the origins and dating of this photograph, which purports to show Massachusetts Senator (and the potential 2004 Democratic nominee for President) John Kerry at a September 1970 anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, but much evidence points to its authenticity:
The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation.

----- The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970

The Kerry Campaign has confirmed that the candidate was at the rally and spoke there.

In terms of "how close" they were, consider this. You can see, with no photographic expertise, that Kerry is at least two to three rows behind Fonda in what appears to be a large crowd.

Notice how out of focus his face is. Because it is fairly clear that the shot was taken outside in reasonably bright sunshine, that indicates at least two things:

1) It was probably shot with a telephoto lens from some distance away, and

2) that even under those (sunshine) conditions which expand what we call "depth of field" (two points between which a camera lens will capture its subject in hard focus -- the forground and background will be in soft focus), his face is in soft focus. What that tells those of us who make our living around lenses is that, while the use of telephoto generally decreases depth of field, the higher number fstop used in bright sunshine increases it.

OK, I admit that's confusing. Here's what it means, though. Kerry was not "with" Jane Fonda at this rally. He was sitting somewhere in the crowd several feet behind her.

My only point is this: The picture proves that Kerry was (admittedly) at the same rally -- to say, as it does above -- that it shows how "close" the two were is highly misleading.