The Black Elite

Ideal08 · #1 12-04-2000, 09:11 AM

Sorors & SF's,

Has anyone read the book Our Kind of People? I think that's the name of it, by Lawrence Graham. I hope I have that down, but anywho... I have been reading bits and pieces of that book, and many parts of it distress me. I was wondering how you all feel on the topic of the Black Elite, or elitism at all for that manner. I feel like in striving to have more (and there is never anything wrong with that), our people many times try to emulate White Americans (slave mentality, another post for another day). This one lady in the book even said that if [affluent] White people don't associate with middle/lower class/blue collar whites, so why should she associate with those same Black counterparts? The idea of separatism based on class is simply beyond me, but I would like to get a better understanding of it, regardless of whether I agree with it.

So help me sistas! Is anyone in here from an elite social class family? Any one's mom a Link? Summers on Martha's Vineyard? Were you in Jack and Jill growing up?

I can't wait to see your responses!! This whole thing is so interesting to me!!!

TiffOne · #2 12-04-2000, 09:45 AM

Yes I have read that book, and like you I became very interested in the topics that he brought up. I always knew that there were well to do black people in America but I did not know much about them. I am not at all from that class of people. Some of their ways and beliefs may seem strange to those on the outside, looking in. Yet I have a lot of respect for these people for what they accomplished during a time when "they" were not supposed to be successful.

1 Woman of Virtue · #3 12-04-2000, 10:14 AM

Yes, I too read the book, and while informative, the mentalities represented in many parts of the book were distressing. Before I used to think of the Black Elite as the "talented tenth", that group of people destined to help uplift the race...

But it seems that as Blacks have been able to enter the middle/upper class arenas, we have become seduced by new wealth, and have forgotten that it was those same concepts that we now subscribe to (capitalism, or the "I'm out for mine" syndrome) that enslaved us in the first place. I admit that I struggle with this because I too want to be successful...and I don't think there is anything wrong w/ that. I think the problem comes when we are so happy and complacent w/ our own success, that the suffering of our brothers and sisters no longer affects us.

Then there are those of us who no longer feel any sense of responsability for our people...but like you said, another post, another topic!

Peace is not the absence of trouble, but the presence of God

exquizit · #4 12-04-2000, 11:39 AM

This made me check myself you guys. I'm far from having alot, I'm sorta living pay check to pay check, but I know for a fact I kinda turn my nose up at certain people. I don't like to involve myself with all those "ghetto" fabulous people who smoke weed, drink to get drunk, or folks that are just way too loud and common. The first thing they tell me when I say "No thanks" to invites to be around that sort of crowd (Be it a club or otherwise)is that I think I'm too much. That's just not my "Cup of tea" if you know what I mean.

Don't get me wrong, I love to have a good time, I'm really silly sometimes

, but good clean fun. Sometimes I feel a little guilty because some pople have been brought up thinking that's cool and know no better, where as others may be drinking or doing drugs to hide or drown out certain sorrows. Do you think I'm thinking I'm "All That" because I choose not to deal with these types?

Ideal08 · #5 12-04-2000, 12:07 PM

Exquizit, I don't think that you think you're all that b/c you choose not to associate yourself with that crowd. But I think it's a totally different situation if you literally turn your nose up at them. I can completely understand not allowing certain types of energy into your life. But that's very different than completely disassociating yourself with a group of people based on how much money they make or how much money their parents made, or what organization they belong to. This book actually talks about making a judgement on a person's character based on their social class. So in answer to your question, no, I don't think that you think you're all that just because that's not your type of thing to do. I think that you are more so disassociating yourself with the actions of the people rather than the people themselves. Wow, this can get kinda confusing.

Ideal08 · #6 12-04-2000, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrandNubian:
Ideal08:

This topic is interesting to me too!!! It's one of the books on my must-read list. But, maybe I'm kinda slow...but what is a Link?

BrandNubian,
The Links is an organization of Black women. I don't know much about it, only what I read in the book. It is a very selective sisterhood that does work in the Black community, and requires extensive hours of community service in our communities. Each chapter only has 55 members, and membership is by invitation only, and is only extended if an opening becomes availabe. So, only if a chapter member dies, relocates, or resigns (which is rare). Women normally join well after college, usually in their 40's or 50's. I think that's what the book said. I hope this helps!

The Original Ape · #7 12-04-2000, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ideal08:
Sorors & SF's,

Has anyone read the book Our Kind of People? I think that's the name of it, by Lawrence Graham. I hope I have that down, but anywho... I have been reading bits and pieces of that book, and many parts of it distress me. I was wondering how you all feel on the topic of the Black Elite, or elitism at all for that manner. I feel like in striving to have more (and there is never anything wrong with that), our people many times try to emulate White Americans (slave mentality, another post for another day). This one lady in the book even said that if [affluent] White people don't associate with middle/lower class/blue collar whites, so why should she associate with those same Black counterparts? The idea of separatism based on class is simply beyond me, but I would like to get a better understanding of it, regardless of whether I agree with it.

So help me sistas! Is anyone in here from an elite social class family? Any one's mom a Link? Summers on Martha's Vineyard? Were you in Jack and Jill growing up?

I can't wait to see your responses!! This whole thing is so interesting to me!!!

Along those lines, I'd like to know who the wealthiest African-American is, and their net worth!

PositivelyAKA · #8 12-04-2000, 05:23 PM

i read the book, it was informative and gave a rather realistic portrayal of some black elite mentalities some that still exsist even today. we all know money tends to bring out the worst in some people. but their success during that time period is commendable none the less.

Teresa2000 · #9 12-04-2000, 05:28 PM

This may be a stupid question, but in the begining of the book, the author lists the a few of the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'. Why is Bill Cosby listed as a 'have-not'? What about the others?
-Teresa

AKA2D '91 · #10 12-04-2000, 07:38 PM

Maybe Bill is listed as a "have-not" because he ACQUIRED his wealth. He was not BORN wealthy. So he would not be in the same league as those whose wealth has been in families for 2, 3 and 4 generations...

He WAS NOT born with a SILVER SPOON in his mouth...

If I am not correct, someone, please correct me...

NO, I have not read the book...

AKA2D '91 · #11 12-04-2000, 08:26 PM

Bill probably is listed as a Have-Not, because his "wealth" was ACQUIRED, you know he was not BORN with a SILVER SPOON in his mouth. I have not read the book, but I would assume that Michael Jackson and Oprah would be on that list as well.

If I am wrong, please correct me!
THANKS IN ADVANCE...

AKA_Monet · #12 12-05-2000, 12:09 AM

(Sorry this is kinda long)

I have to agree with what Poplife was saying. I have read parts of Otis Graham's book and it was somewhat interesting to me that Graham himself didn't really participate in this lifestyle because his family sheltered him and he attended some "ivy league" school that didn't have the traditional Af-Am organizations... I guess I took his perspective as somewhat jealous 'cuz he didn't get a chance to live this "black bourgeois life" like so many of his peers.

Hey, Poplife, what coast are you on? I ask 'cuz I'm on the west coast. Ironically, there a bizarre kinda "bourgeois" out here. There is the "true-to-life" Black folks that have the heritage--most live in the fabulous houses in "Baldwin Hills" on the correct side of the mountain in LA... Or "Altadena/Pasadena", California or (I forget which part) in Oakland. Those are the folks that homesteaded to the west coast, like right after emancipation and set up a livelihood so well engrained in the "Hollywood-Gold Rush" lifestyle. "A Devil in a Blue Dress" addresses some of that...

Then there is the "nouveau-riche" negroes that are "classless" when it comes to obtaining items. Meaning, they can name all the most expensive items on Rodeo Drive and they probably can afford plenty of those items, but they are purely consumers when it comes to owning real property... Some folx call them the "ghetto-fabulous"... Most of us elitist don't like them 'cuz they often sell us out to the highest bidder... (OJ Simpson, perhaps)

I live more south of LA and not Orange County... The bougie black folx where I'm from are spread out now. 30-40 years ago, they use to live in one place, but now, they live all over with beachfront property. However, because of the severe, institutionalized racism, most black folx still go to this one beach probably 'cuz it was the only beach "they" use to allow "us" to go... And "they" racially profile us to this day!!!

As far as the elitist Blacks go, at least in my city, there are some that's got and there are some that's not... One woman was recently murdered by her husband 'cuz they were tryin' to keep up with the "Jones'"...

However, most folx in Cali, kinda know their "roots" and don't forget too much about it. Or rather, the cops really don't allow you to forget your place... YES, Cali, 'specially, SoCal, is super-duper racist--it like, dayum, y'all may as well be the Kard Karrying Kind with your hoods on!!! Y'all don't think so. Tell that to Rodney King...

Poplife · #13 12-05-2000, 12:26 AM

Hey Monet,

My family lives in the DC area (but that's not where I am because of school). So I was raised on the East Coast.

Poplife · #14 12-05-2000, 01:53 AM

I own a copy of the book and I didn't realize that that I grew up around the black elite. Half the kids in my town are J&J kids, my family friends tell my mother she should apply to be a Link, and my dad goes to the Vineyard with his best friends (but he has never taken me or my sister). I didn't know that so many people around me were members of the old guard...to me it was just a known way of life.

I have a good friend that was in Jack and Jill growing up and she is third generation member of "the right sorority."

Her mother is the ONLY black judge in their county and her dad is an anchor man for a local news station. Despite what the book says she is down to Earth, friendly, and realistic. She actually inspires me because she is culturally, socially, and politically aware as well as dedicated to her family, friends, studies, and sorority. She has friends of all races and backgrounds.

Not all black elite's emulate white society. My town chapter of J&J has quite a few Afrocentric community events each year. We also had a program called Project A.F.R.I.C.A every Saturday and you just weren't with it if you did go. *lol* There were a lot of Link moms that were teachers for that program. There were a lot of upper-class black children there, but there were also middle/lower class children that came as well. It was a city thing...

I love my town and I am very proud of it. It very rare to see a large BLACK community where 80% of the people are professionals, where most of the kids go to college, and where most of the people VOTE and GET ACTIVE. I love driving down the street and seeing nice houses that have lovely lawns, nice cars in the driveway, and smiling at the little BLACK children playing outside in the yard.

Still, my family is not what a lot of people would called elitist. My mom says she's not a Links type of person and my dad rejected sponsorship for me and my sister to join J&J. His reasoning was that we lived in an upwardly mobile back community and if we wanted to socialize with upwardly mobile kids all we had to do was go to school.

When I tell people where I'm from some of them say "Oh you think you cute" or "Ya'll some bougie negros." Sometimes people automatically assume I can't relate to them. If I hear one more brotha call me "rich girl" it's ON!! *lol* Anyone that knows me knows that I'm the type of person to befriend anyone that appeals to me. That goes beyond finances and breeding.

But in the real, they can call me whatever they want. I'm glad I came from where I did. Without the knowledge that I learned from my environment I don't know if I would be the person I am today.

Hope this helps your interest.

[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited December 04, 2000).]

BrandNubian · #15 12-05-2000, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ideal08:
Sorors & SF's,

Has anyone read the book Our Kind of People? I think that's the name of it, by Lawrence Graham. I hope I have that down, but anywho... I have been reading bits and pieces of that book, and many parts of it distress me. I was wondering how you all feel on the topic of the Black Elite, or elitism at all for that manner. I feel like in striving to have more (and there is never anything wrong with that), our people many times try to emulate White Americans (slave mentality, another post for another day). This one lady in the book even said that if [affluent] White people don't associate with middle/lower class/blue collar whites, so why should she associate with those same Black counterparts? The idea of separatism based on class is simply beyond me, but I would like to get a better understanding of it, regardless of whether I agree with it.

So help me sistas! Is anyone in here from an elite social class family? Any one's mom a Link? Summers on Martha's Vineyard? Were you in Jack and Jill growing up?

I can't wait to see your responses!! This whole thing is so interesting to me!!!

Ideal08:

This topic is interesting to me too!!! It's one of the books on my must-read list.

But, maybe I'm kinda slow...but what is a Link?