Constructive Criticism & Advice vs. Being Rude

[lastpoetnsite]

much respect...

as i read the thread "Do Sisterfriends really want help...." (paraphrased) i smiled to myself. While i consider myself a sisterfriend due to the fact that i have friends and relatives who are members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. i am not interested in becoming a member myself...so i have no vested interest in my posts.

the question was posed to those interested in Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. but i would like to ask a couple of questions about the issue...and so being respectful of the moderators request i felt compelled to start a new thread.

while there are plenty of interests both on the net and off who are rude, because with MIP they know they can get away with it. and for members there is a sense of one not being able to "win for losing".

but there is a difference between giving an interest constructive criticism and being out and out rude. i have seen both of these things on this message board and in "real life". there are several members of this esteemed organization such as Discogoddess who whenever i read her posts i applaude and pass her words onto my friends and relatives who are members because she is concise but always respectful and polite. and on the other hand there are quite a number of members who are just out and out rude.

considering the fact that we are all adults and no one has any children who post to this board why is it that some get away with being rude and when an interest or someone who isn't an interest posts what is in her mind she is immediately blasted.

it is true that there must be some humility when one is inquiring into the ins and outs of any organization...in particular a private organization and/or secret society.

my friends and relatives would say consistently that Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. wants women who are individuals and not cookie cutters and yet...some of the young women who post and are interested are shunned for being just that. while the others who give answers that quite frankly is no where near being humble but humiliating...they are praised and given respect.

so what is the difference between giving constructive criticism and being out and out rude?

there is another part to this...we are on a computer...and we really cannot "hear" inflection in individuals voices...so what might be perceived as rude either way...may not be. but we do have these "smilies" that mean something. and there is enough history of those who have been rude with their words to understand where they are coming from.

i anticipate either this thread will be deleted or locked or i will receive rude replies and some constructive replies. but i caution you...this is not meant to disrespect anyone...but to spark conversation.

as for the women of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. i have great respect for most of you. having grown up around the company of women who are members of your organization and have witnessed them through what they learned ,both pre & post intake, from your organization that they are achieving a greater goal unified through sisterhood than they could have ever done alone. but there is one thing that they have taught me and that is to stand up for what i believe in...something they enhanced while members but what they lived before they were.

peace

[AKAtude]

And so your purpose for this thread is...what exactly? Please, no long reply. As Discogoddess has said before, you can't read someone's TONE. So, what you may take as rude, someone may take as constructive criticism or the other way around.

Since you are not in our shoes, then you may not know why we react the way we. Sometimes we have good reason to. Since you are on the outside looking in, you may not see it that way.





[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited May 15, 2001).]

[Little32]

I have to agree with lastpoet. Rudeness and disrespect occurs on both sides of the gate. (I see this in all of black greekkdom, not just AKA.)

I am not referring to the ladies that suggest SF's perform searches, visit the national website, or talk to members on there campuses when responding to some of the FAQ's that we see so often on this board. I am referring to the ones that respond with LMAO, no she didn't, WTH, etc...etc.... I think that the only way these responses can be taken as is rude. It sometimes seems that some forget the humility that they have been taught once they make it to the other side.

Sometimes the only way that people know how to deal with perceived hostility, is to become hostile and defensive in return. And it just starts an ugly cycle. Some SF's might not see there comments as disrespectful; they may just be trying to stand their ground, stick up for themselves and their beliefs, and show some spine. These are qualities that we see in the women that we wish to emulate. But there is a way to do it.

Also, many of this questions are posed by first time posters. I make it a habit to check the poster each time I run across one of these FAQ type posts, to see if s(he) is familiar. More often than not, s(he) is not. And while some of these questions might be the result of stupidity and audacity, most are simply the result of ignorance.

In those situations where boldness and disrespect are the culprits, I applauded those who break it down from these misguided posters. But I give a standing ovation to those who manage to do it, while maintaining decorum.

Solutions? Maybe a FAQ section on the board, somewhere where new posters can see it immediately.

[AKAtude]

Maybe good advice to any new poster is to check things out first before jumping in and getting in over their heads. I don't see why we need a FAQ section for that. Like we said, we are not obligated to provide information or answer questions.

If people don't like what we say or how we come across, simply use the power of the mouse and click away. I for one, will not change my attitude to satisfy a few. It's amazing how much people complain about the way they are treated but keeping coming back, not just to this forum but any for that matter.

[ENDROAD]

Not really directed to anyone, so please don't get upset. I just think that things are expected to be too easy by SFs and some wear their hearts on their sleeves. I feel that had some of the people interested now would have been back in the day (old enough to be in college 70s''80s, 90s') They would have NEVER made in on the the Real. They would have ran away crying. No I am not saying I want to be hazed, I am just saying I want to one day wear the letters of AKA with pride IF I am selected, I want to know that I earned them through hard work and perserverance. My first question will be to my Big Sisters, "How do I become a LIFE MEMBER." I mean every word I say. Sorry about the broken post, I am typing fast because I am on my lunch break. Please forgive any errors.

Little32, Honey the whole Internet is a FAQ section.

[Little32]

I don't generally complain about how I am treated. I don't post that often, so there is little opportunity for me to unknowingly make a mistake and then be chastised for it. (Though when I do post, even if it not in relation to your organization, I find myself being chastised anyway.) I learn all that I need to know by watching what others do.
But I think AKAtude that what you said is interesting. You will not change your attitude for just a few. Maybe these interests feel the same way. Maybe this board represents "just a few" who don't like the way that they come across--for whatever reason. Maybe they don't see their actions as offensive to the whole, but maybe to a few. Maybe their interactions with ladies on their campus are always pleasant and then they come here and are told they are in the wrong. Just something to consider.

[AKAtude]

I'm not referring to you when I mention those who complain. There have been quite a few in the past.

No, I will not change my attitude but I already have my letters. It is those who are interested that want something from US. If they are going to enter a sorority's forum seeking information, they better check themselves and the attitude.

Do you really think they would give members on their campus the attitudes that they give us? Would they treat them the same way? I don't think so!

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Little32:
But I think AKAtude that what you said is interesting. You will not change your attitude for just a few. Maybe these interests feel the same way. Maybe this board represents "just a few" who don't like the way that they come across--for whatever reason.

Then maybe, just maybe, they should STEP. And that's not being rude, that's being REAL. If you don't like it, why are you here? I don't like tomatoes, so I don't eat them. It would be insane to eat them everyday and then complain that I don't like them.

Maybe their interactions with ladies on their campus are always pleasant and then they come here and are told they are in the wrong. Just something to consider.

Then maybe they should limit their interactions to the ladies on their campus. How many times have we said that EVERY CHAPTER IS DIFFERENT? Do people think that because we wear the same letters that makes us identical in every way? What you can do on some campuses is not happening on another. And the same thing goes for the internet.

I also get the feeling that people think that we are hurting for membership. Otherwise, why oh why would we change our views and our attitudes for the "dissatisfied few?" Been there done that in 1913. Ain't nothin' changed.

[lastpoetnsite]

much respect...

possibly there is another reason why rudeness is traded back and forth...that reason being: assumption.

assumption on the part of members that all women who post are somehow "digging for info" or just trying to be buddy buddy to get in good.
assumption on the part of the interests that they "deserve" to know everything about an organization.

both are completely wrong. i post here and on many many other forums...*when i have the time*...because i love good conversation and debate. i have actually used some of the arguments for or against issues that i have seen on this forum and others in my "real life" because they helped me reshape an already existing opinion that i held or even helped me argue effectively against an opinion that someone else holds just by getting various opinions through this forum and others.

i come back because regardless of people being rude or considerate...it is interesting.

interests need to understand that the internet, forums, websites etc. are the last stops to an otherwise long search into what organization is the best fit. so don't just "expect" to get the answer here...there are books and "real life" people that can help you much more than the internet can.

sorry if my post was too long...this just popped into my mind.

peace

p.s. after reading the post after mine...i was concerned that i would be perceived as trying to "speak for" Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. let me just make sure that from here on out it is understood...so there will be no confusion...i am in no way shape or form a member or attempting to be a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. i don't want any issues surrounding any incorrect perceptions on either end of the spectrum.

just had to add this...sorry it ran so long.

[This message has been edited by lastpoetnsite (edited May 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by lastpoetnsite (edited May 15, 2001).]

[Little32]

But what if they do? And it is acceptable? Then they come here and suddenly it is intolerable.
Now I am not talking about the interests who are just out and out disrespectful. You know the "you don't have anything to do with my process or my chances so I can say whatever I want", or the ones that come here to snap off because--for whatever reason--they feel wronged by your organization. (Do what you will with those.)
I refer to the ones that are new to the game, or might accidentally ask the wrong question, step on a lot of toes, and then seek only to defend themselves from the barrage of responses.
I am talking about the ones who are sincerely interested, not just seeking to start drama. Some folks just don't know, some folks don't even know how to get their foot in the door. And they come here to find out. And regardless of how "stupid" their question is, how inappropriate or arrogant, no one deserves to be treated with disrespect.
I was one of those folks and I am quite thankful for the internet. Just from coming to forums like this I have learned what I should and should not do. Much of that knowledge coming from the way that members respond to questions that I would--at one time--have been crazy enough and ill-informed enough to ask and, in sone cases, actually have asked, to people, in person. (When I did, the yound lady I was talking to was very polite in her response. She wasn't rude, dismissive, or ridiculing. And I really appreciated that.) There were many times, when I first started coming here, that I have winced when reading member responses to questions that I never knew you shouldn't ask.
Again, I understand that you are not obligated to SF's in any way shape or form, I am just trying to show you the other side of things.

[AKAtude]

Lastpoet, that's a good point but it's not always assumption. It's being on guard at all times. Sometimes people are digging for information, sometimes they are just plain nosey, and sometimes they just want to be disruptive.

You come back regardless because it's interesting. Some come back because they want to challenge us. Hiding behind a username somehow gives them the false assumption that they are protected (little did VS know...but that's another thread).

[AKAtude]

Originally posted by Little32:
But what if they do? And it is acceptable? Then they come here and suddenly it is intolerable.
Now I am not talking about the interests who are just out and out disrespectful. You know the "you don't have anything to do with my process or my chances so I can say whatever I want", or the ones that come here to snap off because--for whatever reason--they feel wronged by your organization. (Do what you will with those.)
I refer to the ones that are new to the game, or might accidentally ask the wrong question, step on a lot of toes, and then seek only to defend themselves from the barrage of responses.
I am talking about the ones who are sincerely interested, not just seeking to start drama. Some folks just don't know, some folks don't even know how to get their foot in the door. And they come here to find out. And regardless of how "stupid" their question is, how inappropriate or arrogant, no one deserves to be treated with disrespect.
I was one of those folks and I am quite thankful for the internet. Just from coming to forums like this I have learned what I should and should not do. Much of that knowledge coming from the way that members respond to questions that I would--at one time--have been crazy enough and ill-informed enough to ask and, in sone cases, actually have asked, to people, in person. (When I did, the yound lady I was talking to was very polite in her response. She wasn't rude, dismissive, or ridiculing. And I really appreciated that.) There were many times, when I first started coming here, that I have winced when reading member responses to questions that I never knew you shouldn't ask.
Again, I understand that you are not obligated to SF's in any way shape or form, I am just trying to show you the other side of things.

I KNOW the other side of things. I was there. I wasn't born with AKA stamped across my chest. So, I haven't forgotten.

My advice for the internet has always been to observe and when in doubt, don't ask or do it by private e-mail. I have also seen sisterfriends apologize for their ignorance in advance stating they aren't sure if the question is appropriate or not. However, some people try to use the "I'm ignorant" excuse to their advantage.

What do you mean by is it acceptable? If you are referring to their attitude, no it's not whether is in cyberspace or in person.

We have well over 14,000 posts on this forum alone. I'm sure that we have touched on just about every topic imaginable. So, coming in this late in the game there is a wealth of information to be had and mistakes to learn from.

[Ms_Thang24]

I think that this a very good topic for a forum. Therefore I would like to give my input. I have been a sisterfriend for a long time now, and up until yesterday I thought that I was pretty much on my p's and q's about the does and don't of those pursuing there pearls. Just like DG posted the forum about grammatical errors, I will admit I didnt find it cute at all. I kinda felt like she was singling me out, especially by using me as an example. After reading that I immediately replied to her post because I felt like it was directed towards me. Me stating my opinion and the way that I felt, some of the members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. felt like I was being disrespectful. I felt that I wasn't. I was only stating my thoughts. I know that some jumped down my throat immediately, and it let me with a bad taste in my mouth. I mean those comments ran through my mind all day. When I got on line this morning, I immediately apologized because I would never want to disrespect anyone or something that they represent and hold dear to their hearts. Looking at my post from all angles and someone's point of view I could see how it could be misconstued as harsh, although I didnt think so. I think that these forums have no place for rudeness on either side. It's not fair to anyone and it is getting us no where but to forum like this that we are on.

[lastpoetnsite]

much respect...

AKAtude...yes, some folx are doing some shady business on a forum (even i cannot defend VS...she was out there and thats disappointing) that could be, and in most cases has been, a good place for information. and sad to say one bad apple can and does spoil a bunch.

and you are right most people would never dare talk to someone in person the way they talk over the net. if questioned, most of those people have never even tried to approach a member in "real life".

from my experience with organizations from service to political to social that i have been interested in required me to get to know the people first as people and not as "such and such member of XYZ". my mentor in fact is a member of a HBGLO but knowing him as a human rather than letters has been the most rewarding experience of all.

no one should have to "change" who they are when answering questions...but a level of respect on both sides isn't too difficult to achieve.

peace

[AKAtude]

Originally posted by Ideal08:
I also get the feeling that people think that we are hurting for membership. Otherwise, why oh why would we change our views and our attitudes for the "dissatisfied few?" Been there done that in 1913. Ain't nothin' changed.