Something to Think About?

[KillarneyRose]

Do you think the following argument is credible? Why or why not?


Yes, greeks do not have open membership (meaning that not everyone who wants to be one can be one; they have to be chosen), so they are considered by some to be elitist.

Yet at my college newspaper, you couldn't just walk in off the street and say you wanted to write for it. You had to show a portfolio of your earlier work to prove that you knew how to write a news story.

Men at my college had to be invited to join, or had to try out if they wanted to walk on, the football team. There aren't enough spots on the football team to accommodate everyone who wished they were a part of the team and very few are actually chosen. This was also true for all of the other sports teams.

Women who wanted to be cheerleaders had to try out. Only those who lasted through, I believe, three or four rounds of competition were allowed to be on the squad. Hundreds would try out, but few would make it.

The SGA (Student Government Association) was made up of students who had been voted into office by their peers. Again, not just anyone could walk into the office and announce that he/she was the new SGA President.

When I was at Pitt, there was a small art gallery that showed pieces that were done by students. Any student taking an art class could submit a piece to be considered for inclusion at the gallery. Many did, but most were not chosen to be shown. A small percentage were.

If someone wanted to be in one of the plays the Theatre Arts department put on, they had to audition. And even among those who were chosen, there were some parts that were considered "better" than others.

Why are greeks considered elitist and these other groups aren't when their membership is just elite? (I hate that word but couldn't really think of another).

I'm sure a football recruit must be able to do specific things on the field (hey, I know nothing about football), the prospective cheerleader should know how to tumble and needs to be small enough to be lifted and, obviously, the SGA board needs to be elected into office.

The criteria used by greeks is not as cut and dried, but it is relatively simple. The potential new member needs to "fit in" with the brothers or sisters of the organization. To have things in common with them. GLOs are, after all, groups of people with at least some interests in common, who enjoy being around one another. Just because the membership criteria aren't necessarily tangible and can't be marked on a grading sheet, doesn't make them any less valid.

[ASUADPi]

You make perfect sense to me. How can people consider us 'elitist' when you have to 'try out' for other things such as sports, plays and whatnot.

I have to say though that I think envy definately comes into play. I don't think you can human without a little envy. Everyone is truly envious of someone else. Either their looks, their money or even their friends.

I believe that is where the 'elitist' idea comes from. First off people just assume we are buying our friends. Which means from that standpoint people who are Greek are somehow assumed to have money which could be farther from the truth. Yes, some Greeks do have money, but others don't. So that characteristic doesn't apply to everyone.

Secondly, I think people are somewhat envious of the friendships we create being Greek. We are going to have sisters and brothers who are willing to help us out and be there for us, strictly because we are their sister or brother. I have very strong bonds with my sisters.

Along the lines of friendship, you the bond of being in that sorority or fraternity. With that means you will have a bond with every other member. The same applies to other chapters. I've seen numerous threads on GC where a brother or sister is having a crisis in their life and needs advice. They could get dozens of responses from other Greeks.

An example would be me. I have sisters that I've met online that I'm willing to give support and help in any way I can just because they are my sister. Yes, they are a sister I have never met. But it doesn't matter, they are my sister. The same will apply to brotherhood.

I truly think people are envious of these bonds that we have. Not only within our own chapter (sorority or fraternity) but within the Greek community in general.

Agree with me or disagree with me, just respect what I have to say.

Brianna

[ThetaGrrl]

Good point!

I can't help but wonder how this all varies from campus to campus, though. At CSU, Greeks were hardly considered "elitist" but maybe that's because we were only about 9% Greek. Maybe someone could explain to me how they are seen at other campuses- Colorado just isn't very pro-Greek.

[AlphaPhiBubbles]

I see your point and I totally agree, but I think what makes GLO recruitment so....different...is the abilities PNM's are measured with are more things like social skills, which as you said is not as cut and dry as measuring physical ability or looking at a GPA. Of course GPA and involvement are parts of recruiting a PNM but honestly the biggest factor in choosing PNMs ends up being how much everyone "likes" him/her. In this sense it can sound kind of petty maybe.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't think GLO's are elitest...I see every single type of person imaginable in GLO's. I think people make it seem harder than it really is to get into a GLO.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose (in part)
Why are greeks considered elitist and these other groups aren't when their membership is just elite? (I hate that word but couldn't really think of another).

Perhaps "selective" would be a more neutral word?

I think you make a very good point. Along with the criteria of "fitting in," I would add the criteria of mutual benefit (maybe there's a better way to say that): does this prospective member have skills/traits/etc. to offer that will benefit the group as a whole, and does the group have something to offer that will benefit the prospective new member.

[ISUKappa]

Unfortunately, I think along the way in our vast and varied history, GLOs were very "elitist." The social attitudes of of colleges, and even the country as a whole, 50-100 years ago are very different than they are now, mostly, I believe, due to "unenlightenment." Once you're given that tag, no matter how long ago, it's very difficult to get rid of.

Though, today, most non-Greek arguments of GLOs being "elitist" come mostly from misconstrued preconceptions or a lack of understanding (and unwillingness to learn). I believe that natural human instinct is to fear or belittle that which we do not understand. It makes it less scary to us. And it's not easy to take that first step in bridging the gap to that of which we do not understand. It doesn't mean we (general we) shouldn't try.

Eh, but that's just me.

[33girl]

I think AlphaPhiBubbles is on the right track. If you can kick a football 90 yards, you'll get on the team, even if you have a horrible personality. If you can paint like Van Gogh, you'll get to exhibit your work, even if you haven't taken a shower since Nixon was in office.

Greeks choose people on things that are intangible, things like sports and art are tangible. Of course when it's things like art and music it's someone's opinion, but those people have to answer for their decision - i.e. if you pick someone to write for the paper and they suck, the person who chose them will have to answer to their superiors. So they're not going to choose someone they can't stand behind.

The big difference of course is that when you have to live with someone, you don't want to pick someone you can't stand.

[Glitter650]

I think the perception of "elitistism" comes from that fact that (as some have stated already) that are criteria aren't as objective shall we say as someone trying out for the football team... I mean everyone knows if you want to be a quaterback you have to be able to throw the ball pretty damn far, and in the right direction, and if you can't do that as well as the next guy, well he's gonna be the quarterback. With greek life we're basically choosing people based on who they are all around and a general "vibe" that they will fit in. When people don't get bids it makes them question their entire being, not just their talent in one area and they think to themselves "those F&@#in' snobs who are THEY to JUDGE me ??!! They think they are soo great (IE, Elite) they can just toss ME... (who likes to perceive myself as great and worthy of being "elite") that I wouldn't fit in ? I mean I don't feel like greek life is elitist because if it were I think we would have certain cut and dry criteria to get in... (parent's were decendent of some great historical figure, make a certain salary, grew up in the right neighborhood, MUST have 4.0 GPA, ETC...) but I can see how people could see it like that from the outside.

[PKTKKG]

I can only speak for myself, but as I look back on high school and college I realize that the things I disdained in public were the things I was jealous of or secretly wanted to do or be. I am convinced that my mother's secret desire was to be a cheerleader since to this day she always makes negative comments about them and goes on and on about how silly they are!

[DGMarie]

When you don't make the football team you think your football skills are not good enough. When you don't make the school paper you think your journalism needs work. When you go to a sorority that during rush promotes fun and friendship and involvement, and you like them and think you are fun and friendly and then get cut heavily, of course that really stinks. And of course you want to know WHY? And often, unlike throwing a ball or writing an article, you don't know what to DO to fix what went wrong. I can see the pain in all of it. when it works out it is fantasitc and when it doesn't it just plain hurts.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by PKTKKG
I can only speak for myself, but as I look back on high school and college I realize that the things I disdained in public were the things I was jealous of or secretly wanted to do or be.

This is such a good point! Whenever I hear or read someone criticizing greek life, my automatic first thought is that they wanted to be a part of it but for whatever reason weren't able to be so they're bitter. And the more they rage on about it, the more convinced I become. I could possibly be wrong, but some people sure make a lot of effort to slam something they supposedly don't care about.

[Rudey]

I'd say there is some secrecy to the greek life thing and it isn't as open. If there is a great football player who does everything right there is a chance he won't get to play but not likely if he's that good. So 5 guys on the team won't determine "hey i don't like him because he talks with a lisp so he can't play with us." With greek life, I could do that and nobody would know. Plus greeks aren't just clubs - often you live in a house, eat in a house, associate with other greeks (i don't remember if competing newspaper staffs ever had exchanges).

-Rudey

[breathesgelatin]

I've had issues with this as well.

My aunt is a grad of Davidson college, where they have eating houses instead of sororities. In their recruitment process, they have nights of parties similarly to sororities, but the difference is that only the freshman make the selections, and the placement is by lottery. My aunt thinks that this is best ever. She told me once, "Even if everyone in the group hates you and thinks you are a loser, you should be allowed to join it."

People bash selective social organizations all the time because of past injustices (ie, discrimination religiously and racially) and because they perceive that they are still based along class and popularity hierarchies. What they don't see is that Greeks are moving towards far MORE tangible standards than in the past--ie GPA, activities, etc. However I would agree that there is some room for criticism of Greeks. There are chapters that are interested in getting the richest and most beautiful members. Hey, those people probably fit in there, but it comes across (to many) looking like the ONLY reason they've been chosen is because of the money or looks, not the great personality and relationships the members have (again, less tangible to outsiders). So I see why people think the way they do. And I honestly have problems with the way some chapters think. I believe that there is still racism and classism in recruitment (clearly not for all chapters, just a few). We've come a long way--we still have far to go--but I think that people should recognize our accomplishments and realize that basically EVERY organization has membership standards. Even a club with open membership often makes the less accepted members feel uncomfortable.