Special ed kids used as janitors

[Dionysus]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/1...s.ap/index.html

[Kevin]

link doesn't work.

[Dionysus]

Hmmmm I don't know why.

Try the link from this thread, this one works.

http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...ial#post554562

[Kevin]

I feel okay about this actually. I was always jealous when in primary/secondary school that the special ed kids had FAR more resources spent on them than the gifted/talented. It's reality, who were the future producers in society here?

Probably the best argument for this is that this type of work and experience can go a very long way in earning these special ed kids a real job upon graduation. They're not going to college or tech school, so here they are learning to do things that will help them in the future. I see nothing wrong with this.

I went to a fairly expensive Catholic HS. There were some kids that came from lower income families. To pay their tuition, they performed janatorial tasks for the school afterhours. Demeaning? They didn't think so.

The ridicule by other students was uncalled for, but I think the students ridiculing the special ed students should have been disciplined severely. There is never an excuse for that type of behavior.

[swissmiss04]

Yeah but those kids chose to do that at your school. No doubt they had the capability to actually refuse. To exploit these kids as free labor is absolutely sick.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Yeah but those kids chose to do that at your school. No doubt they had the capability to actually refuse. To exploit these kids as free labor is absolutely sick.

It really depends upon your point of view. Are they exploiting them? Or giving them experience that will serve them later in life?

[bethany1982]

I don't see this as exploitation. The district said it was part of a work/study type program. I do think the students should have the option to opt out this type of "work" if they find it degrading. Personally, I am more concerned with the parent who made the comment that his son had to do "that" in front of the "normal" students. NORMAL! Damn! I hope he didn't say that in front of his son.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by bethany1982
I don't see this as exploitation. The district said it was part of a work/study type program. I do think the students should have the option to opt out this type of "work" if they find it degrading. Personally, I am more concerned with the parent who made the comment that his son had to do "that" in front of the "normal" students. NORMAL! Damn! I hope he didn't say that in front of his son.

Exactly.

This may sound harsh to many but...

None of these kids are future lawyers, doctors or will ever have a job requiring any real skill. The best bet to make them productive members of society is to get them producing as early as possible. To be a janitor in many cases for these kids is a major personal victory and in no way should be considered degrading.

[honeychile]

"To each his ability and from each his best."

I once heard a lecture about the Chinese character for disaster being a combination of something and opportunity. Isn't that how work-study in any line of work should be viewed - as an opportunity? If we're talking about people who can be educated enough to work as a janitor - and let's face it, there are some skills that janitors need! - I'm all for it. What's the alternative? If your child was mentally challenged, wouldn't you rather have him or her able to do something for which they can take some pride?

I so agree with Bethany about the attitude the one father has taken about his son - makes you wonder what goes on behind closed doors!

[sugar and spice]

I wouldn't have so many qualms about this if the parents had okay-ed this, but since they clearly weren't okay with it -- in fact, it sounds like at least some of the faculty members sensed that the parents wouldn't be okay with this and went out of their way to hide it from them -- I think it's pretty bad idea.

And as for the arguments for it . . . all of the jobs that they mentioned -- which included janitor work, helping out in an auto shop, and working in retail -- are pretty low skill, but it's pretty clear that in terms of dignified jobs most people would place janitorial work on the bottom of that totem pole. I don't see how anyone who is only moderately mentally handicapped wouldn't be able to handle ANY of those jobs -- it's not like the only job that special ed. kids will ever be able to have is janitor work, and from the sound of the article one of the students whose parents complained got to work in other areas after complaints were filed, and it seems like he was able to handle those okay. Furthermore, one of the parents straight out said that his son would never be a janitor -- to me that sounded like he would be willing to support his kid through adulthood rather than have him be a janitor, if worse came to worst, and if that's the case then why insist that "this kid needs to learn special skills that will help him later in life?" when that's clearly not on the parent's agenda. It sounds to me like the special ed students were given the janitor jobs because the faculty knew that they wouldn't complain about them like the other students might.

As for the father's attitude toward the son, this is entirely an issue of semantics, but I don't think there's anything wrong with referring to the other students as "normal students." If he'd referred to them as "normal kids," that would be questionable, since the idea of normality as applied to people is pretty hard to define. But I think it's pretty clear that there is a line drawn between "normal education" and "special education" -- that's why it's called special education, right? So in reference to students, instead of kids in general, I don't think that is that bad.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by honeychile
"To each his ability and from each his best."

I once heard a lecture about the Chinese character for disaster being a combination of something and opportunity. Isn't that how work-study in any line of work should be viewed - as an opportunity? If we're talking about people who can be educated enough to work as a janitor - and let's face it, there are some skills that janitors need! - I'm all for it. What's the alternative? If your child was mentally challenged, wouldn't you rather have him or her able to do something for which they can take some pride?

I so agree with Bethany about the attitude the one father has taken about his son - makes you wonder what goes on behind closed doors!

I have a hard time believing it takes years of study to learn the skills to broom a floor and throw out trash even if you have the mind of a young child.

-Rudey

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
I have a hard time believing it takes years of study to learn the skills to broom a floor and throw out trash even if you have the mind of a young child.

-Rudey

You ever taught a special ed class?

I've subbed in several. I don't think it makes me an expert, however, I do have at least a glimpse of what goes on in there.

I sub in a very traditional suburban type school district. The Special Ed kids basically sit in a room all day, playing preschool games. Not really learning much of anything. Think of a grown person that's at the level of around a 5 year old physically but with hormones. Pretty volatile sometimes.

Each kid's different, but in many cases, yes, if you can teach them to mop, use a dust mop, pick up trash, etc.. you're doing the best you can for them. I guarantee you the kids do not give a damn about a "dignified" job. The most dignified they'll ever get *IF* they can find work is the most menial and simple tasks... like janatorial work.

Ya'll should listen to yourselves. You make janatorial work sound so freaking demeaning. There are tons of hard working folks out there who actually do this for a living. It's just as respectable, if not more respectable than many jobs and it sure as hell beats being a ward of the state in terms of "respectability".

[AGDee]

Janitors in the UAW get paid $20 + an hour, just like the line workers...

As a former Occupational Therapist who worked and volunteered in a lot of sheltered workshops over the years, this program is not the least bit unusual. The point is to teach jobs at the student's skill level. For some it's food service, for others it is stuffing envelopes. If a student hated a job or a parent was opposed to that job, then I see no problem with shuffling them around. The reality though, is that there are not a lot of companies willing to work with Special Ed schools to provide these job opportunities. I recall that Dominos did, our local hospital did and a few other local companies did. In my experience (and I'm not at that school, so I don't know for sure) we tried very hard to match people up with jobs they would be good at so that they could be successful.

Dee

[Rudey]

Yes, but even a child does not need trainging to do those things.

Why do they need training from when they start school until the end of school (through high school?)?

And while it isn't demeaning I bet good money that most janitors would switch to being a doctor or lawyer if they could. Let's not hide that. But that really isn't the relevant question here. Should they be forced into a job? Are they allowed to just not do it and sit and play with boxes? That is contrary to what defines free labor.

-Rudey

Originally posted by ktsnake
You ever taught a special ed class?

I've subbed in several. I don't think it makes me an expert, however, I do have at least a glimpse of what goes on in there.

I sub in a very traditional suburban type school district. The Special Ed kids basically sit in a room all day, playing preschool games. Not really learning much of anything. Think of a grown person that's at the level of around a 5 year old physically but with hormones. Pretty volatile sometimes.

Each kid's different, but in many cases, yes, if you can teach them to mop, use a dust mop, pick up trash, etc.. you're doing the best you can for them. I guarantee you the kids do not give a damn about a "dignified" job. The most dignified they'll ever get *IF* they can find work is the most menial and simple tasks... like janatorial work.

Ya'll should listen to yourselves. You make janatorial work sound so freaking demeaning. There are tons of hard working folks out there who actually do this for a living. It's just as respectable, if not more respectable than many jobs and it sure as hell beats being a ward of the state in terms of "respectability".

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
Yes, but even a child does not need trainging to do those things.

Why do they need training from when they start school until the end of school (through high school?)?

And while it isn't demeaning I bet good money that most janitors would switch to being a doctor or lawyer if they could. Let's not hide that. But that really isn't the relevant question here. Should they be forced into a job? Are they allowed to just not do it and sit and play with boxes? That is contrary to what defines free labor.

-Rudey

They, like every other American deserve the right to be able to work. These kids are developmentally on many different levels. Yes, it actually does take repetition and training sometimes to teach them to do janatorial jobs. I think most of these kids and most of their parents are glad to see their kids having the opportunity to be productive. I'm sure if the parents object, the kids can be taken out of their work-study programs and sit with the severe/profound kids that can't do much more than drool on themselves.

Switching to being a Doctor/lawyer is not exactly an option here. The message is that the school is doing the best it can to prepare these kids for life after school. There's a janitor at one of the schools I work at who's shall we say of below average intellect. He graduated HS and got a job at his alma mater cleaning. Dude loves his job and is truly as happy as he can be.

And these days when we have to deal with all of these budget cuts in schools, this program sort of kills two birds with one stone.