more stupid questions

[aoife]

Here in Ireland the only information we have about the greek life comes from the tv from programmes like dawsons creek or the like. It is not really put in the best light. Ive read some threads where you guys, sisters or brothers say that there are some of you who only join a fraternity or sorority for the parties and the guys or girls. This is the impression tv gives of this way of life. What is the true meaning of the greek life?How come if you have no greek heritage you choose to join the life? Why do some places haze their pledges? What does it prove if you can indure the abuse that your given while pledging?

[davelu99]

First off, most fraternities and sororities no longer haze pledges. Almost all have policies against it. A common misunderstanding is that "Greek life" meaning fraternal organizations in America have something to do with Greece or Greek heritage. They don't. Greek letters are used to identify each organization. Although the reason Greek is used is unknown, it is probably because of the Ancient Greeks being one of the first philosophical societies on Earth. Other than language, Greek organizations have very few, if any ties to actual Greek heritage. Additionally, television is a very bad place to get your information on fraternities. Most of what you see is not true. Most fraternities focus on personal development, academic achievement, and interpersonal relationships. Fraternities are basically just that, a society of men who love and care for each other as brothers. Parties happen on college campuses regardless of a person being "a Greek" or not. Being "Greek" just provides more resources and opportunities to party, The "frat parties" you see on TV or in the movies are drama, not reality.

Originally posted by davelu99
First off, most fraternities and sororities no longer haze pledges. Almost all have policies against it.

While it would so wonderfully fantastic to say that all GLOs don't haze, you know and I know and everybody knows that that's not true. There are still a bunch of bad apples out there who continue to haze their pledges/new members, and it's them who spoil it for the rest of us.

All 26 sororities within the National Panhellenic Conference have a strict no-hazing policy. There is absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for hazing in any of their organizations across the US and Canada.

I'm going to echo davelu99 and say that TV and movies aren't really accurate in portraying Greek life in the US. While GreekChat shouldn't be seen as as microcosm either, at least here you can get a feel of how Greek life is like at different campuses.

You can also visit different websites and read more about sisterhood and brotherhood. Take a look at some of the open mottos and creeds that these orgs. have, and though you won't be able to fully understand it (as most have secret meanings only known to members), it might provide you with a sense of how it can be like.

[aoife]

Its hard for me to get my head round the whole idea of the greek life, as i said before theres nothing like it here. Its something that interests me alot, especially since i was in toronto last summer and stayed in a frat house for a night. It was like something off the tv!I have to say that not all tv programmes make the life out to be bad. Theres just far more negative press and films about it than good. The sorority girls i met in canada said they are not like american sorority girls as they do n ot have to pay massive college fees and so that means they are not as posh or whatever.
Whats a chapter? Why do you pick a certain sorority or fraternity to pledge to? can you try to get into more than one? What happens if you dont get in? Its all very cult like dont you think? The whole idea of havibg secrets etc its a bit weird. And as you said hazing does go on, even i know that. Its all a bit mad

[LouisaMay]

A chapter is a sub-division of a National (or International) organization. New members join these chapters at individual schools. Some sororities or fraternities are "local" which means there is only one chapter.

The reasons a new member chooses a particular sorority or fraternity vary widely. Some are attracted to the enthusiasm of the current members. Some like the community service the chapter or National organization does. Some feel more welcome in one over another.

If you are not invited to join your favorite group, you may try again with another organization or you may find other ways to spend your time. Some people who do not find a spot in a sorority or fraternity start their own group. This is how many local organizations came into being.

The "cult-like" image is pretty silly. In my past experience with a sorority, the "secrets" only provided a special bond among members. These "secrets" are not secret because they are bad or evil or illegal. They are simply private and special. Cults have ritualistic practices, but fraternities and sororities have rituals that are more like "ceremonies." [disclaimer...I have only been a part of two fraternal rituals, and I do not claim to know the contents of the rituals of other organizations.] Ceremonies are used throughout our culture. Weddings, graduations, confirmations, court proceedings, etc...

Hazing is not accepted universally, and the vast majority of fraternities and sororities are firmly against such practices. The hazing that continues is disturbing, unfortunate, and illegal. You are right...the fact that some groups still haze is "mad." These groups are continuing a "tradition" that is plain WRONG, and they are giving other law-abiding groups a bad image.

Each organization has its own "true meaning," but Greek Life comes down to one basic purpose: to form lifelong bonds of friendship between members while providing opportunities for leadership and community service. The heart of Greek Life is loving relationships...not abuse...not scary secrets...not cultish brainwashing.

I hope this helps!

LM

[Corsulian]

Originally posted by davelu99
Although the reason Greek is used is unknown, it is probably because of the Ancient Greeks being one of the first philosophical societies on Earth. Other than language, Greek organizations have very few, if any ties to actual Greek heritage.

Ancient Greece and to a certain extent, Ancient Rome, are considered the original democracies of the world. The first fraternity in America began as somewhat of a student political group--a place to discuss and perhaps try and preserve the founding principals of the country. Using the letters of the greek alphabet is a matter of tribute and makes the group a little more interesting. Some position titles also originate from the Greek or Latin language (President or Vice President referred to as Archon, et cetera).

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by davelu99 (in part)
Greek letters are used to identify each organization. Although the reason Greek is used is unknown, it is probably because of the Ancient Greeks being one of the first philosophical societies on Earth.

The reason is not really that unknown at all. In the post-Enlightenment era when the first Greek-letter societies were formed, the study of the Classics -- ancient Greek and Roman texts, in the original languages -- was a standard part of any learned person's education. The Classics were seen as the basis of Western civilization and philosophy, and in America as the basis for democratic ideals. Moreover, Latin and, to a lesser extent Greek, had long been used for purposes like mottos.

It was natural, then, for the first fraternity -- Phi Beta Kappa, which was based on classical values -- to adopt a Greek motto. The group soon became known by the three Greek letters that represented its (then) secret motto. Other fraternities, and later sororities, followed suit.

Other than language, Greek organizations have very few, if any ties to actual Greek heritage.

I wouldn't make quite such a broad generalization. Many GLOs draw on Greek mythology and philosophy with regard to their rituals and principles/values.

[GtownGirl98]

As to the parties... I partied more when I wasn't in a sorority then I did once I joined. I didn't have enough time for it all. Though I did meet my non-greek boyfriend through a sorority sister at a party held by her friends from High school!

I understand why you feel so confused about the whole thing. Even in America there are people that don't understand the "whole" greek thing, they feel that we are "buying our friends" because we pay dues to be a part of a group, but wouldn't members of clubs like the Rotary Club or Lions clubs be doing the same thing?

But not the point... I understand also because I worked one summer with some ladies from England, Wales, and New Zealand and it was a foregn concept to them also.

I don't think that any of these questions are offensive and welcome any question that I can answer.

[decadence]

A chapter is a campus branch. That's oversimplifying it a little as there are alumni/graduate chapters and others too, but it's an easy way to understand the concept.
Media portrayals (films and the like) have to be sell-able. Consequently they will focus on things like partying, attempt to portray greek orgs as having wild nights (preferably with beautiful, tanned and athletic people); after all, these aren't generally documentaries so the portrayals - due to editing or scripting - may be very inaccurate. Additionally, some chapters of some groups might focus more on socials/parties than a varied blend of social activities, academics, philanthropy, leadership etc. Social activities are important and fun but there's a lot more to greek orgs than them. Like someone said "you don't have to choose between fun and success, the most successful people seek both".

You can try to get into more than one, although you can only be a member of one group, generally. Many NPC (governing body of 26 womens' sororities) groups hold formal 'rush' (recruitment) and this gives the girls at a college campus a chance to visit all the houses and chapters, the person rushing might have 2 sororities which are their top choices. Eventually the process of mutual selection has them find their group.

Broadly speaking, the "greek" aspect is simply because they are named with greek letters. MysticCat81 does a great job of filling in the gaps, above. Dekeguy, elsewhere on this message board explains it excellently too.

Rituals, like someone else said, are present in everday life; teethbrushing, graduation etc. Obvioulsy greek rituals might mean more than brushing teeth . The concept of secrecy is generally based on a premise that you get out as much as you put in. Taking part in fraternity activities (NOT hazing), learning about the group etc, versus just being able to see the ritual on a website/book allows it to be worked towards. And, thusly mean more; which means one is likely to embody the groups ideals more since it is something they have worked to be a part of. Whether those ideals be integrity or whatever. It also gives a connection with the past, with all brothers and sisters who came before you. Something shared that sets you out. If this interests you further, you might take a look at www.tke.org, Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity. They have a document called 'why secrecy in rituals' on their website.

As for hazing... to answer your questions directly: Historically hazing was used (and it was not used everywhere) on the basis it weeds out those who aren't really committed and means that those who are prepared to spend long nights etc must really want to become brothers/sisters of that group who'll have a strong bond. Today, hazing is banned by every national greek umbrella organisation and greek org. Chapters would risk having their charter (permission to be a chapter) revoked and the members of that group expulsion from that fraternity. To say nothing of criminal charges or discipline from the university. It is abomination of the ideals of such groups. There may be isolated pockets of the activities... but they are not responsible members of greek life. All it "proves" if "endured", is that you've "earnt" [note sarcastic quote marks!] your place in a group which should be reported and which threatens greek life everywhere.

[honeychile]

Aoife, members are recruited for sororities and fraternities through Recruitment or Rush. You may want to look at the Rush Forum to get an idea of what goes on (to some extent). This is a VERY simplified account:

There are 26 National Panhellenic Council sororities, and many "locals" (sororities which are on one or two campuses). Different colleges have a different number of sororities, but during Recruitment, the PNM (Potential New Member) visits each sorority (or chapter), then decides which ones she likes. The sorority members also decided which PNMs they like, and invitations to the next round of parties are extended. This is done for how ever many rounds of parties that college holds, and then invitations to join (bids) are given. You can accept the bid and join, or decline.

New Members are given a probationary period before they can be initiated; mostly to see if they can keep their grades at an acceptable level and still participate in philanthropy, social events, and sorority-related events. You very rarely hear about how many thousands of dollars are raised each year by the different sororities & fraternities for charity, or that they also are many cities' major source of donations for blood!

Inititiation is, for the most part, a private and very nice ceremony when the New Member becomes a Full Member of the sorority. Afterwards, they can wear the sorority's pin and have full access to their resources. Most sororities provide a career networking program and scholarships to further the dreams of their members!

Yes, the social part is fun - but you can't participate in the socials if you don't have the grades. My grades actually improved when I moved into the sorority suite.

Keep surfing around this site, and keep your mind open. I think you'll find that the image most movies or programs have about the Greek System are cartoons, at best!

[aoife]

Wow i didnt realise that keeping your grades up was part of it all. im actually stunned at some of the stuff you guys have told me. The impression i have now is totally different from what i had before, and now im even more jealous than ever!i guess that in a way that kind of thing exists here too but not in the formal way you have it. I suppose here, we have our group of friends that we try to encourage and to enjoy college with as do you with your sisters or brothers. i never knew that you raised money for charity either thats really cool. And as for the ritual thing that some of you mentioned, i never really thought brushing my teeth as a ritual but i guess your right!

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
...the first fraternity -- Phi Beta Kappa...

The first American collegiate fraternity was the Flat Hat Club. I believe that Phi Beta Kappa was the second.

The next American collegiate fraternity that I am aware of is KA Circle, founded in 1812 at the University of North Carolina. It died out by 1866.

We should all be aware of the rest of the lineage of fraternities which really starts with KA Society at Union in 1825.

[DeltAlum]

I've never heard of the Flat Hat Club, but almost every source on Greek Letter history that I've seen calls Phi Beta Kappa the first Greek Letter Society in the US.

Did the Flat Hat group ever take Greek letters? Maybe the others consider them more of a social club?

Be interesting to know more about them.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I've never heard of the Flat Hat Club, but almost every source on Greek Letter history that I've seen calls Phi Beta Kappa the first Greek Letter Society in the US.

Did the Flat Hat group ever take Greek letters? Maybe the others consider them more of a social club?

Be interesting to know more about them.

According to Baird's, they were founded in 1750 at the College of William and Mary. They died out about 20 years later. Very little is known about them.

Also, while Greek letters are the predominant method of nomenclature for American collegiate fraternal organizations, there are some national groups, as well as locals that do not use Greek letters. Acacia, FarmHouse and Triangle come to mind.

[GtownGirl98]

I know that Universities and Colleges are arranged differently across the pond, but do you have "secret societies"? Would schools be open to the idea of these groups, like here in the US and Canada?

As to scholarship and philantrophies, these are the major aspects to the groups. Social is also important but for most of us, we are paying for our education to our schools and that is the main point of us being there, our grades.