School Spirit [Discussion]

[decadence]

(serious thread).
Okay, this is something I've thought of for a while. In N. America there is so much more school spirit than in, say, European countries viz. Britain as well as others. In the UK, universities are almost seen as drive-thru; you get your degree from an interchangeable university which is hopefully fairly high in the league tables - not caring too much about the institution you're in while reading for your degree - and then you leave (Oxford/Cambridge possible exceptions here). And, that's it. Little or no alumni involvement. Over here the concept of donating to one's alma mater is not widespread. The US Carnegie Foundation's President (current?) Vartan Gregorian (I believe he was formerly pres. of Brown's University too), said in a paper
that the whole idea in Europe remains that the state is responsible for the progress of society in contrast to America where they tend to hold that progress is the responsibility of everybody, not just government. Consequently, investing in education through alum donations is "foreign".
Certainly in the USA, the universities are often beautiful campuses with modern, well equipped buildings whereas in the UK they often have dated drab concrete structures due to funding issues. To iterate, the thought of contributing to it financially does not occur. We have lobbying of government for greater investment in higher education, I wonder if energies would be better focused on culture change.
Even at High School level, in the USA there are, for example, high school rings - here there is no such thing. And often in the USA you might, I believe, see folks on campi wearing university branded stuff; here that is rare. This isn't just about money issues, it's school spirit generally, there's an idea here of university being like school - you go there, come home do homework, repeat and eventually don't have to go there anymore. I wonder if it is because of sports? Collegiate football in the States is massive obviously and perhaps being proud of one's team has a trickle down effect to being proud of the university? Certainly in local US papers they always have news of local school/college sports whereas in England if they do it's really half-assed and there is *no* practice of tracking promising athletes in print. I don't even know if my university has an official song - I strongly doubt it. Thing like that.

This is something I've thought about quite a bit, I'd be really interested to hear the thoughts of those across the pond on why they do feel a connection to their university particularly after they leave as well as while students.

- Richard

[Glitter650]

I became friends with some English people while working at summer camp and we actually discussed this. She said that the only form of school spirit there was is ONE crew race that everyone got excited to watch. (like the big rival race) but other than that it was exactly as you described. I'd have to say perhaps it is the sports. My school doesn't have a football team and i I know my school is sadly lacking in the Spirit department. Really the only thing that gives me school pride is being a Phi Sig. I am greatful for that, or I would HATE my school. (that is the general feeling amongst A lot of greeks on my campus)
I think a lot of it has to do with the whole attitude amongst Americans that college is not only to educate you but to broaden you in general. Universities try to offer extra cirricular activities to get involved in so you can have experiences above and beyond the classroom. When people get involved in those types of things, they bond more easily with each other, make friends, accomplish things they can be proud of, and have a better experience in school. It becomes not just school, but part of their lives and they have spirit about it and are proud about belonging. I'm not sure why the UK universities don't offer as much in the way of clubs and sports at school, but if they did it could improve/ change the system in the UK.

I think this could be an interesting discussion... but I can't quite find the question you're asking. What are you looking to discuss, exactly?

[decadence]

Ginger: I think this could be an interesting discussion... but I can't quite find the question you're asking. What are you looking to discuss, exactly?

'School spirit' and how there is so little in the UK but it's normal in the USA at colleges/universities. How people feel a connection to their alma maters long after and might continue to support them financially and otherwise and might still wear high school rings displaying where their from & how nothing like that exists here. That, and an exploration of why it is that way there and not here (UK). Glitter650 pretty much latched right onto the topic.

[33girl]

The USA is way bigger than the UK. People are looking for a smaller group to belong to so they can stand out.

Also, what is the admissions system like there? pardon me if I butcher this, but aren't you somewhat constrained by test scores as to where you can apply and go? I mean, even if I bombed my SAT's I can still apply to Harvard if I want to. They can throw my app in the trash and laugh hard, but I can apply there. What I am trying to say is you choose the school, it doesn't choose you.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Glitter650

I think a lot of it has to do with the whole attitude amongst Americans that college is not only to educate you but to broaden you in general. Universities try to offer extra cirricular activities to get involved in so you can have experiences above and beyond the classroom. When people get involved in those types of things, they bond more easily with each other, make friends, accomplish things they can be proud of, and have a better experience in school. It becomes not just school, but part of their lives and they have spirit about it and are proud about belonging.

I've seen this when comparing the US to a lot of different countries. The US is a LOT more focused on extracurriculars being an integral part of the education system than the rest of the world. When you look at other countries, most of them have little to no extracurriculars associated with the school, not just in university but throughout the whole education system -- if you want to play soccer, you have to play it through a club outside of the school, etc. In America there is a bigger focus on school being more than just about academics -- there's a large focus on not just extracurriculars, but social opportunities too. I have friends in Malaysia, Australia, and the UK who had ONE dance in their entire "high school" career, and that was an equivalent of a senior prom, generally right after or before graduation. In comparison, my friends and I had Back-to-School dances, Homecoming semi-formals, Proms, Halloween costume parties, Valentine's Day dances, winter formals, Sadie Hawkinses, the list goes on and on. Throw in things like Homecoming, spirit weeks, senior skip day, senior party -- American schools just tend to have a lot more non-academic traditions than their foreign counterparts. It's so much easier to feel a connection with your school when you can associate your time there with things like the Prom where your best friend was crowned Prom Queen, the soccer team retreat at the lake, staying up late to work on the Homecoming float, going to Florida on a choir trip.

[decadence]

Originally posted by 33girl:The USA is way bigger than the UK. People are looking for a smaller group to belong to so they can stand out.
Also, what is the admissions system like there? pardon me if I butcher this, but aren't you somewhat constrained by test scores as to where you can apply and go? I mean, even if I bombed my SAT's I can still apply to Harvard if I want to. They can throw my app in the trash and laugh hard, but I can apply there. What I am trying to say is you choose the school, it doesn't choose you.

You can apply to any university you feel like here too. You get your UCAS form (UCAS is kinda like a centralised mailing system for unioversity applications. You list all the universities you wanna apply to on there (6 max I think each year). Then they send that to your universities and you're notified of acceptance (conditional on pendng results or unconditional) or rejection. So you choose which schools make a decision on you, but like your example if I apply to Cambridge without Cambridge level results... then they can throw my app in the trash. 'Course, since you get a limited number of choices in each academic session, wasting choices on Harvard level institutions where you don't have a snowball's chance in hell is silly .
The USA is way bigger but many school sizes are the same: 20 thousand, thirty thousand students is widespread here; I'm aware the USA (UCF for example) goes over and above that though.

[decadence]

I always feel odd when I post in my own-started thread so much but I wondered, what sort of functions specifically are:
"... Homecoming semi-formals... Sadie Hawkinses, the list goes on and on...Homecoming.. spirit weeks... senior skip day". Yup, serious question. As you'd imagine we don't have them here and I'm interested to know.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by decadence
I always feel odd when I post in my own-started thread so much but I wondered, what sort of functions specifically are:
"... Homecoming semi-formals... Sadie Hawkinses, the list goes on and on...Homecoming.. spirit weeks... senior skip day". Yup, serious question. As you'd imagine we don't have them here and I'm interested to know.

Homecoming was originally a university celebration for alumni who would come back to the school for "the big football game." It was eventually brought down to the high school level, but depending on the school it may have little or nothing to do with alumni. Usually it centers around a big football game and a dance, there is generally a Homecoming Court elected and a king and/or queen. Often there is a competition between grade levels to see who can get the most points at silly competitions like powderpuff football (girls playing football), tug of war, etc. It's often accompianed by a spirit week (see below) and a parade.

Sadie Hawkins is a dance where girls traditionally ask the boys to be their dates, instead of the other way around (although life has changed enough since the 50s that girls often ask guys to dances besides Sadie Hawkins too). I don't know where the name comes from.

Spirit weeks are often leading up to a big dance (Homecoming) or big game (football/basketball generally). Their content varies, but usually each day has a special theme where people are supposed to dress up funny -- formal day, school colors day, costume day, twin day. There might be pep rallies, penny wars, parades, or lots of other things involved with it too.

Senior skip day is a choreographed day (usually in the spring, when the weather is getting nice and seniors are getting super senioritis) where all the seniors in the school skip class on the same day. Soemtimes this is sanctioned by the school and teachers turn a blind eye; at other schools you get in trouble for it. Often the seniors plan another activity to do instead of school -- at my school, for example, they all went to a national park about an hour north and sat around by the lake, working on their tans, playing football and barbeque-ing.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by decadence
You can apply to any university you feel like here too. You get your UCAS form (UCAS is kinda like a centralised mailing system for unioversity applications. You list all the universities you wanna apply to on there (6 max I think each year). Then they send that to your universities and you're notified of acceptance (conditional on pendng results or unconditional) or rejection. So you choose which schools make a decision on you, but like your example if I apply to Cambridge without Cambridge level results... then they can throw my app in the trash. 'Course, since you get a limited number of choices in each academic session, wasting choices on Harvard level institutions where you don't have a snowball's chance in hell is silly .
The USA is way bigger but many school sizes are the same: 20 thousand, thirty thousand students is widespread here; I'm aware the USA (UCF for example) goes over and above that though.

But you can only apply to six - that's totally different from here. In theory, if somebody had the time to put in, they could apply to every single university in the united states.

I think school spirit does have to do in part with the success of your sports program and also with the "prestige" associated with your school. For example, in high school I had tons of school spirit - I was a cheerleader and track captain, was involved in tons of things, etc. I also went to a "good" public high school in the suburbs that is a sports powerhouse, so of course I was proud to be from there. My first college had terrible sports and a lousy campus where nearly everybody went home on the weekends. I did not have very much "Pioneer spirit" even though I was an athlete and super involved. I had much more Gamma Phi Beta spirit than anything for UW-P. Now I'm attending a much more prestigious university academically, and a D1 school so we're obviously also much better at sports, and although I'm less involved, I'm much more proud to be a Golden Eagle than I ever was to be a Pioneer.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Senior skip day is a choreographed day (usually in the spring, when the weather is getting nice and seniors are getting super senioritis) where all the seniors in the school skip class on the same day. Soemtimes this is sanctioned by the school and teachers turn a blind eye; at other schools you get in trouble for it. Often the seniors plan another activity to do instead of school -- at my school, for example, they all went to a national park about an hour north and sat around by the lake, working on their tans, playing football and barbeque-ing.

Unless you had a track coach like mine who said nobody could be in the Conference meet if they skipped out, with a general glare in the direction of the captains. We had our "athlete senior skip day" after AP tests and sporting events were over and spent the whole day shopping.

[33girl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Sadie Hawkins is a dance where girls traditionally ask the boys to be their dates, instead of the other way around (although life has changed enough since the 50s that girls often ask guys to dances besides Sadie Hawkins too). I don't know where the name comes from.

Sadie Hawkins was a character in the old Lil Abner comic strip. She was never asked out due to her fugliness, so they came up with a day where girls asked guys out instead of the "traditional" way.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Unless you had a track coach like mine who said nobody could be in the Conference meet if they skipped out, with a general glare in the direction of the captains. We had our "athlete senior skip day" after AP tests and sporting events were over and spent the whole day shopping.

Or unless you had an evil Spanish teacher who scheduled a "field trip" to a Mexican restaurant where you had to speak Spanish the whole time on senior skip day, and told everyone you would fail if you skipped it.

We had a school sanctioned senior skip day in winter and an unofficial one in spring, though.

[Glitter650]

Our school didn't sanction skip day because seniors took finals a week early and the last week of school was senior breakfast, senior picnic, graduation practice and Bacalaurete, so they said we didn't "need it" and if we particpated we would not be able to walk in graduation... but, yeah we did it anyway and went to the beach and played in the ocean and had a BBQ.... but not everyone went. I mean what are they gonna do cancel the ceremony because no one can walk ??!

[decadence]

To Glitter50, you comment interestingly on clubs and societies; within the UK most universities have a varied range of them. But (they come under the student unions) participants tend in my view to not make the link between the extra curricular pursuit and the university. They’re all posited as run by students for students (be they soccer, world issues group, tennis etc), perhaps this is why the link isn’t made to “my university provided this… I shall donate to them so others can have it provided … or I shall wear the ring so people will know where I was and how I came here??” Is that accurate? As far as the university - as opposed to the student unions - arranging extra-curricular activities I don’t see this – is that widespread in the U.S?

A thought just occurred to me that Warwick university might have a type of spirit week, they have an International week where each day there are cultural events, foods, shows, acts, dances. Warwick is in the upper echelons of universities here, and they have around 130 nationalities. The student union is able to have that international week because the university gives them £50,000 (in excess of $83,000) specifically to do it. Most unions here wouldn’t have those sorts of funds for one initiative. Warwick is richer, as being a prestigious institution it holds many conferences for which people pay. Even with that there doesn’t seem to be the same ‘school spirit’ as found over the pond though.

GeekyPenguin’s comments on prestige, even amongst the ‘better’ universities there is little school spirit, particularly after graduation. It was also interesting to read comments on being a Pioneer/Golden Eagle etc. Here there are no nicknames for the colleges(/mascots etc?). Saying one is a Nottingham-ian , Leicester-ean, or Exeter-ian doesn’t have the same ring. I don’t know how significant that is?

To continue the discussion, I still wonder why there is such a cultural contrast, what other reasons there could be. Is it irreversible? Definable?