Hazing

TEKEISSTRONG · #1 11-12-2001, 03:47 AM

I AM A CHAPTER ADVISOR. I WISH I COULD GIVE THE CHAPTER - BUT SINCE WE HAZE, WE CAN NOT RISK HAVING A WELL MEANING BUT ILL-INTENTIONED FRATER NOTIFY NATIONALS.

I AM A FIRM BELIVER IN HAZING. I WENT TO WAR IN SAUDI AND THEN DID COLLEGE AND PLEDGED TKE. WE HAD HAZING BUT I DID NOT FEEL CHALLENGED ENOUGH.

I BECAME PLEDGEMASTER AND UPPED THE INTENSITY OF THE PLEDGE PROGRAM. WE HAD MORE PEOPLE RUSH - BECAUSE OF THE REPUTATION.

AFTER MY GRADUATION - I WAS ABLE TO TAKE SOME MONEY THAT I INVESTED AND BUY A SMALL MACHINE SHOP. I STAYED AT MY ALMA MATER AND ADVISED THE CHAPTER. THE PLEDGE PROGRAM HAS BEEN REFINED, AND NOW WE TAKE IT TO A VERY INTENSE LEVEL.

OUR PLEDGES ENDURE SLEEP DEPRIVATION (4 HOURS A NIGHT) UNTIL ZEBRA WEEK. THIS IS A WEEK OF NO SLEEP, ONE MRE A DAY TO EAT. NIGHTS ARE SPENT IN THE CRAWL SPACE OF THE HOUSE. BTW, WE MONTOR THEM IN CLASSES AS WELL. IF THEY ARE CAUGHT SLEEPING IN A CLASS - THEY ARE KICKED OUT OF THE PROGRAM.

ONLY ABOUT 20% OF OUR PLEDGES MAKE IT THROUGH THE PROGRAM. I AM PROUD OF THAT. OUR PLEDGES KNOW THAT AFTER 7 WEEKS, THEY WILL HAVE EARNED THE LETTERS OF TAU KAPPA EPSILON.

I POST THIS BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED THAT TAU KAPPA ESPILON IS BECOMING A CLUB, WHERE PLEDGES WRITE A CHECK, WEAR A PIN, AND BECOME FRATERS. THAT'S NOT THE FRATERNITY I PLEDGED. SO I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW OTHERS FEEL ABOUT THIS TOPIC.

TEKEISSTRONG.

Erik P Conard · #2 11-12-2001, 04:14 AM

I am a former chapter adviser. I am not one now because there
is no chapter nearby. I have been active off and on for over forty
years. While I admire your loyalty and salute your dedication, I
would kick your ass--lovingly--and would say you were misguided. Hazing for brotherhood is like fucking for chastity.
There are so many other things we can do to evoke fraternalism.
No, frater, think it over. You are denying many good men who
want to be one man the chance. That is selfish. Shame.
YITB, Erik P Conard--Denver alumni chapter

The1calledTKE · #3 11-12-2001, 09:17 AM

Hazing is so iffy these days. Under my schools regulations having the pledeges learn the TKE history or even calling them pledges is hazing.

DeltaBetaBaby · #4 11-12-2001, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TEKEISSTRONG
I AM A CHAPTER ADVISOR. I WISH I COULD GIVE THE CHAPTER - BUT SINCE WE HAZE, WE CAN NOT RISK HAVING A WELL MEANING BUT ILL-INTENTIONED FRATER NOTIFY NATIONALS.

I AM A FIRM BELIVER IN HAZING. I WENT TO WAR IN SAUDI AND THEN DID COLLEGE AND PLEDGED TKE. WE HAD HAZING BUT I DID NOT FEEL CHALLENGED ENOUGH.

I BECAME PLEDGEMASTER AND UPPED THE INTENSITY OF THE PLEDGE PROGRAM. WE HAD MORE PEOPLE RUSH - BECAUSE OF THE REPUTATION.

AFTER MY GRADUATION - I WAS ABLE TO TAKE SOME MONEY THAT I INVESTED AND BUY A SMALL MACHINE SHOP. I STAYED AT MY ALMA MATER AND ADVISED THE CHAPTER. THE PLEDGE PROGRAM HAS BEEN REFINED, AND NOW WE TAKE IT TO A VERY INTENSE LEVEL.

OUR PLEDGES ENDURE SLEEP DEPRIVATION (4 HOURS A NIGHT) UNTIL ZEBRA WEEK. THIS IS A WEEK OF NO SLEEP, ONE MRE A DAY TO EAT. NIGHTS ARE SPENT IN THE CRAWL SPACE OF THE HOUSE. BTW, WE MONTOR THEM IN CLASSES AS WELL. IF THEY ARE CAUGHT SLEEPING IN A CLASS - THEY ARE KICKED OUT OF THE PROGRAM.

ONLY ABOUT 20% OF OUR PLEDGES MAKE IT THROUGH THE PROGRAM. I AM PROUD OF THAT. OUR PLEDGES KNOW THAT AFTER 7 WEEKS, THEY WILL HAVE EARNED THE LETTERS OF TAU KAPPA EPSILON.

I POST THIS BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED THAT TAU KAPPA ESPILON IS BECOMING A CLUB, WHERE PLEDGES WRITE A CHECK, WEAR A PIN, AND BECOME FRATERS. THAT'S NOT THE FRATERNITY I PLEDGED. SO I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW OTHERS FEEL ABOUT THIS TOPIC.

TEKEISSTRONG.

I am absolutely appaled that this would come from a chapter advisor. Does it make you feel good that you can get guys at least 6 years your junior to fear you? That you can take advantage of vulnerable freshmen trying to figure out what to do with their newfound independance? Sad, very, very sad.

GmuTeke · #5 11-12-2001, 01:48 PM

frater,

a few questions for you,

how does lack of sleep make better fraters?

how does bullying and intimidating the members make them better fraters?

should there be a pledge period? absolutely. should it be difficult, sure. you wanna cut 80% of your pledges, that's fine with me, be picky, be selective. but how does hazing them make them better people?

i am firm believer in a pledge period that is difficult, the guys gotta come together through this, learn about TKE, and learn how to become men. but there are ways to do that without hazing them. if you want some examples, then feel free to pm me. pledgeing should be an adventure, not a terror.

just my 2 cents

The1calledTKE · #6 11-12-2001, 02:09 PM

Your chapter is hopefully the only one like yours. If you so confident in your beliefs and lawyers why don't you tell me your chapter name?
YITB,
Brandon

Dejajeva · #7 11-12-2001, 05:21 PM

Hazing....is pointless.

I see no point in degrading other humans for any reason.

DeltAlum · #8 11-12-2001, 07:00 PM

TEKEISSTRONG,

Keep it up. I'm sure you'll be very proud of your former chapter.

T. Rod O'Neal · #9 11-12-2001, 07:17 PM

Dear "Tekeisstrong"

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately, not only do I disagree with you, but I have forwarded your comments to TKE HQ in Indianapolis. I would like to point out that hazing is not only against the International Constitution and ByLaws, but it is also ILLEGAL, and diametrically opposed to everything TKE stands for.

Accordingly, I've requested a full investigation into this matter, and alerted various officials of the International Fraternity. I pray to God that no one gets hurt in the meantime. You should be ashamed of yourself for setting such a bad example for the rest of us.

EarlR · #10 11-12-2001, 08:59 PM

Thank god no one else agreed with the writer of this post. I was beginning to be afraid of our future!

Thanks all for speaking up!

YITB,

Earl

snoopTKEstyle · #11 11-12-2001, 10:07 PM

Dear Frater,

My chapter deals with your kind alot. I totally understand that your men earn respect. Yours is a case rarely heard of. While my chapter is not known on campus for hazing, we still rank in the top 3 for rush success, and we are only a colony. Because I love being a TKE, i often contact other chapters and see how they run things. While my chapter and I do not pass judgement, there are many chapters that try to tell us to haze really bad, to make the brothers earn it. We look down on those chapters. Historically, if you check the statistics, chapters that have large reports of hazing have a tendency to die out, because of the small recruitment rate. It is a fact of life...if you do something wrong...you will get caught eventually. Frater out of total respect of our brotherhood i think you should ask yourself...Would you rather have a chapter that was big on hazing, die out in a couple of years, or a chapter that is big on brotherhood building, and challenging events, that lasts for a long time. This is a question that my chapter and I had to face. Apparently with the receipt of our charter next semester, we will have done the right thing. Please do not take what I have said personally, but as a founding father I was not hazed, and I can guarantee you that I am extremely proud of my TKE experience.

yitb,
Joe Webb

33girl · #12 11-12-2001, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
I Hazing for brotherhood is like fucking for chastity.

This has to be one of my favorite quotes ever.

While I agree that eliminating things like interviews, signatures and scavenger hunts goes too far and takes a lot of the fun and education out of pledging, this is over the top. MRE's? Sleep deprivation? You must be out of your tree.

If you wanted to run a military unit, you should have stayed in the military. (FWIW I think this stuff is just as much bull in the military as it is in a fraternity.)

lenoxxx · #13 11-13-2001, 01:13 AM

I was fascinated to read your comments regarding hazing.

In many ways I felt like I was reading something from one of the 6 fraternities at our college that are off campus/have no charter.

Or maybe somehting from like 1983...

Hazing chapters exist in most major fraternities, but it is a dying breed. Eventually one of the people that is getting hazed will complain, or get hurt- and the college and whatever national banner you fly will do away with you. And you might get arrested or sent to court to face a lawsuit. Especially as a chapter advisor, you risk major legal liability for advising behavior to undergrads that is illegal.

Thus, no house, no rush etc.

And where are you then?

Jason Lenox
Lambda Chi Alpha 97'

DeltaBetaBaby · #14 11-13-2001, 01:15 AM

Just out of curiousity, has anyone seen or heard from the guy who started this thread since he posted? He hasn't been back to defend himself, and I find that a bit suspicious.

TEKEISSTRONG · #15 11-13-2001, 03:59 AM

Hello fraters:

First of all, I want to thank you very much for your replies. I want to give you some background on my experiences and I'm looking for some feedback.

As I have indicated, I am a vet. I came from a broken home and I joined the Army out of H.S. because a judge made me do it. I was an undisciplined asshole who had no respect for authority.

After a couple of well deserved ass kicking from some DI's, I decided to make the best of the military. I got my act straight, went to Jump and Ranger School and went to the Gulf in 91. After the war, I used my educational benefits to attend college.

I pledged TKE because I felt they had a strong bond between each other, and because of a supposed "hard pledging" experience. The pledge period underwhelmed me, and I thought that GLO's were supposed to be difficult. The thing I disliked the most about the program was the forced alcohol consumption as a pledge. Remember, I was not your typical college freshman. I was 23 years old and had some life experiences. I could not see the point of drinking a lot of alcohol as a building experience.

After I received my letters, I was a very active frater, and served as Hegemon and Prytnis. I set out to change our program to something based on my experience which I felt would build character. Thus, we incorporated the military rituals in the chapter.

I was fortunate to have invested some money in the market, and after graduation, was able to purchase a small machine shop which I have grown into a pretty good business. I was asked to be the chaper advisor which I gladly accepted.

I feel that many of our young men need discipline, which is why I have defended the program we have. I felt that the hazing statements made my national fraternities have been "lip service", and that hazing was an accepted norm. Judging from my replies, it appears that I am mistaken.

I don't want to make TKE into a "write your check" fraternity, and I feel that a lot of anti-hazing rules are way overboard. (Remember, we have an attorney on retainer). But I am open to some ideas on how to have a challenging pledge program while maintaining some civility.

One other note, thanks to Frater Conard for his post about screwing and chasity. It makes sence frater.

YITB,

TEKE IS STRONG