Who Really Influences Standards of Beauty for Women?

[DaemonSeid]

Had a very enlightening and entertaining converstaion with some friends a relatives yesterday as we were talking about health issues and how some related to overall attractiveness.

A few times during the convo, the women involved would start some comments off 'Well if men didn't want a woman who looked like..." or "It's men's fault that women do this..." or my personal favorite "I want to slap the man that invented (insert product here) for women." .

(Sidebar: One of those products was high heeled shoes and it was an Italian royal lady that commisioned heels because she was short.)

SO I am wondering with all of the things that women choose to do for the sake of beauty (Weaves, surgery, weight loss, make up, anti aging products, clothing, etc.) and with some of the products created and sold being credited to women that are in the fashion and health industry (just my opinion, not based on fact) how much blame can be really placed on men in factoring how a woman looks according to 'standards'?

Share your thoughts, please.

[SydneyK]

I think it's society as a whole that influences standards of beauty. I've known plenty of men who have said something along the lines of, "That woman is way too thin - somebody get her a cheeseburger!" I've also heard women point out how fat that (size 4) girl is. It goes both ways.

I think what often happens is that a woman assumes her man has certain expectations of what she should look like, then tries to meet those expectations.

There are some things that women probably do because of their desire to be attractive to their men (i.e. shaving their legs), but I don't know that it's fair to blame men for that behavior.

[Munchkin03]

Women influence standards of beauty for other women. Women are also insanely hard on each other over minor things. It's been my experience--and if I'm wrong, please correct me--that men aren't as picky about women as long as they're cleaned and well-groomed and not overly flashy. I've seen women tear each other apart over things like nail polish color!

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Women influence standards of beauty for other women. Women are also insanely hard on each other over minor things. It's been my experience--and if I'm wrong, please correct me--that men aren't as picky about women as long as they're cleaned and well-groomed and not overly flashy. I've seen women tear each other apart over things like nail polish color!

I'd agree with this. I forgot who said it, but the quote "women could rule the world---if only they didn't hate each other," comes to mind.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Women influence standards of beauty for other women. Women are also insanely hard on each other over minor things. It's been my experience--and if I'm wrong, please correct me--that men aren't as picky about women as long as they're cleaned and well-groomed and not overly flashy. I've seen women tear each other apart over things like nail polish color!

Agreed...look at some of the tabloids, they try to influence women that this person is too fat, too skinny, too blonde, too dark and so forth.


Anyone appluade Jessica Simpson a few months ago when people were calling her fat (and actually I think she looks better with a lil' thickness on her...at least she looks like she eats! HA!)


You don't see this in men's magazines.

Heck as long was we can lace a pair of shoes up...we are ok.

Something else I said to someone a while back, men have a general idea of what we like and I tend to think that if we had a checklist and get say....3 out of 5 right...we are good.

I tend to think nowadays, women go too far with all of the anatomical upgrades they feel that they need to be 'more attractive' or 'look more youthful' when in reality MOST MEN really don't find it all that attractive.

Think about it, when you get all dolled up, you aren't doing it for us, you are doing it for your competition...each other.

[rhoyaltempest]

You all have good points but you're not going back far enough. Men have imposed standards of beauty, behavior, and idealized "perfection" on women since the beginning of time, in patriarchal and oppressive societies. Since then yes, women have learned to participate and impose their own standards of beauty on other women and men for that matter. The history behind all of this still follows and influences men and women today and most dominant is the European standards of beauty which have influenced men and women in America and around the world.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

You all have good points but you're not going back far enough. Men have imposed standards of beauty, behavior, and idealized "perfection" on women since the beginning of time, in patriarchal and oppressive societies. Since then yes, women have learned to participate and impose their own standards of beauty on other women and men for that matter. The history behind all of this still follows and influences men and women today and most dominant is the European standards of beauty which have influenced men and women in America and around the world.

I agree. Now "the rules" are imposed mainly by women, but if you go back far enough (even as recently as pre-WWI) the rules were created by men.

The benefit to the influx of women in the fashion industry (beyond models) is that a lot of clothing and styles are much more comfortable to wear. Even in the last 10 years (since my first), bras have become much more comfortable and easy to wear!

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Women influence standards of beauty for other women. Women are also insanely hard on each other over minor things. It's been my experience--and if I'm wrong, please correct me--that men aren't as picky about women as long as they're cleaned and well-groomed and not overly flashy. I've seen women tear each other apart over things like nail polish color!

I said something like this in a Barbie controversy thread of some kind on here in the recent past. However, I agree that some of these things started with men, women perpetuate it and are insanely critical of each other. I believe we do this out of insecurity about our own self image, trying to tear down someone we think is much more attractive than us so that we don't feel so badly about ourselves.

Every woman I know is aware of her every flaw, even things that nobody else will ever notice or care about.

[AOII_LB93]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Think about it, when you get all dolled up, you aren't doing it for us, you are doing it for your competition...each other.

I know a lot of women who would disagree with you here, myself included. I like looking good for my husband.

As far as beauty standards, they're here whether we like them or not. I know a lot of women who have standards for the men that they are with as well. Would I still love my husband if he was a fatty? Well, hypothetically yes, would I be happy about it? not in the least. If I look my best, so should he.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Think about it, when you get all dolled up, you aren't doing it for us, you are doing it for your competition...each other.

Total and complete bull. I dress up & put on makeup because I LIKE doing those things, and because I hope the guy I like will enjoy the end product too. I don't try to "compete" with women - I can be looking what I think is my hottest and another girl can be in sweats and no makeup and still attract the guy I'm looking at. Everyone's different.

Too many people confuse beauty standards with preferences. I prefer guys with blue eyes and guys that aren't super skinny. That isn't anything society has "imposed" on me, considering Orlando Bloom is the opposite of that and he was the hottest thing alive a while back, or so society said.

If I'm feeling snarky on a night out, I'm just as likely to crack on a man's ensemble as I am a woman's.

[KSig RC]

Um, isn't the "WOMEN ARE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY ARE CATTY/COMPETITIVE!" thing just the same kind of societal expectation that we're decrying here?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Um, isn't the "WOMEN ARE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY ARE CATTY/COMPETITIVE!" thing just the same kind of societal expectation that we're decrying here?

No, I'm saying if I make fun of someone's outfit/hair/weight, I don't care if they have a penis or a vagina. The premise of the original post was that women blame men for unattainable beauty standards but tear each other down, while the men get off scot free.

I am an equal opportunity bitch.

Oh, and just because a woman made it, doesn't mean it wasn't in reaction to something a woman wanted. That woman just happened to be more business savvy. I mean, when it was discovered that men like vanilla scents, the market was flooded with vanilla products - made by men AND women.