Is there a happy medium for MIP

NPHC greeks,

It is obvious that everyone is unhappy with the current MIP process. I have read threads about people's thoughts on paper vs. sands...what would be a happy medium...what would an acceptable way to pledge an org without getting beat down, without worrying about law suits, meanwhile still giving people the opportunity to take part in the tradition of being on line and earning your letters?
Secondly, if there was a happy medium do you think fraternities would be able to ever stop beating down their initiates? Is it a man thing do beat on each other since they do it in the military and other fraternal organizations? What is the purpose of getting wood anyway ?

[SapphireSensation]

Peace & Blessings
For MIP to be modified, people would have to first realize that what "Real" pledging is all about. Real pledging does not constitute being constantly beaten like a recalcitrant child. The purpose of getting wood IS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN AT ONE POINT DURING THE PLEDGE PROCESS, NOT THROUGHOUT. I cannot speak on my organization's symbolism. But, through my personal research on fraternal organizations(BGLOs, Masons, etc), the wood comes from the African Rites of Passage.
ANYBODY CAN TAKE PAIN!!!!!
It takes a true & real woman/man to learn the history of their respective organization and not only memorize it but EMBRACE IT.
The same Sorors & Frat that condemn you for being "paper" are the same ones that you NEVER SEE at a service project or even a scholarship luncheon. You only see them at a session, a party, boatride, etc. And, what kills me is that they still wear paraphernalia and they haven't been financial since they crossed. Overall, if you are not going to do right by your organization, then don't even mention that your a member. When you represent your organization, you BETTER represent it well!!!!!
So, when you wrap all of these elements up together, this is what you get...people, who are members of our organizations, that criticize and half-kill pledgees.
The happy medium will only come when people realize that the BRUTALITY is unnecessary and you can reap all of the fruits of being members of our illustrious organizations, just the same.

TrueGeekLove, I apologize for going off on a tangent but, there are cerain things that need to be said...thank you
SapphireSensation

[Syrun]

Well said SapphireSensation.

What does MIP stand for? Please tell me, I honestly don't know.

[ZetaAce]

MIP = Membership Intake Process

[humblebumblebee]

M.I.P. stands for "Membership Intake Process".

[icytre]

TrueGreekLove,
I just want to say that your concerns are very valid, but seem to be speaking in a genralizing manner.

If I weren't in a BGLO, I would think that all BGLO, mainly fraternites, only beat their pledges down, when that really isn't the case. A majority of the chapters have successful MIP. We should be careful in how we make statements.

I will say that there needs to be some changes in Membership Intake Process. Because the extreme hazing incidents seem to be on the rise.

SaphireSensation,
I like reading your responses. You stated that the main sorors/frat condeming people for being "paper" are the ones who are basically T-shirt wearers. It seems that people always use that statement as a defense as it relates to being termed "paper." I will have to disagree with you. It is my belief, which is based on my perceptions and experiences, that alot of the people condeming are the ones doing all of the work. I myself have been guilty of it in the past.

Yes, there will always be t-shirt members that "pledge" and are not considered "paper". There are also hard working members who are considered "paper".

My belief is that people who pledge are more likely to be active than people who are considered "paper." Why because people who pledge have put alot of effort and time into their organization. Why would someone who is "paper" remain active? All they have done basically is pay their money and wear letters. Is that really fair?

I know that NPC orgs haze as well, but being that I am interested in NPHC that is the reason that I threw that question out there, but thanks for making that comment. I agree that people shouldn't just sign on the dotted line and get letters...but that leads back to my original question. Is there a happy medium between working to obtain your letters, and being beat down to obtain your letters....how can orgs ensure that their interest cross the sands the "proper" way without putting themselves in a situation that might end up in suspension of their chapter? Why can't traditions and rituals be kept but minus taking wood? If you didn't take wood does that make you paper?

[icytre]

TrueGreekLove,
I am sensing that you really have a problem with the "wood". Is that the only perception you have of pledging BGLOs? There is so much that stems past the "wood".

I will say that intake varies from chapter to chapter while still following national guidelines. Being paper is not about not taking "wood". Its about going through something, making a sacrifice, and being loyal with all of your heart.

I believe that if our chapters supervised individual members of the organization during intake, alot of the incidents would not have taken place.

We need to weed out the individuals who seem to lose control.

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

In my near 10 years membership in an NPHC organization, I have seen NO correlation between those who have pledged and those who have not pledged in relationship to service rendered. I know far more who have pledged and are inactive as those who have not pledged who are active.

Originally posted by icytre:
My belief is that people who pledge are more likely to be active than people who are considered "paper." Why because people who pledge have put alot of effort and time into their organization. Why would someone who is "paper" remain active? All they have done basically is pay their money and wear letters. Is that really fair?

[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited July 06, 2000).]

[LXAAlum]

True....
You might take a few moments and read the thread under the hazing forums entitled wood - there may be some good insights and parallels for you...

[icytre]

FinerWomanhood,
If I may ask, were you intiated in 1991? Also, when did you graduate from college?

My response to you saying you "see more inactive people who pledged" would be that there a whole lot more people who have pledged as opposed to going through "paper". If I am incorrect, I will stand corrected. Were there many people considered "paper" within the years of
1991-1995? There weren't too many in my area and I pledged Sp. 97. If there was no one considered "paper" in those times, then how could possibly see any correlation.

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

I did cross in 1991. And yes, you are right comparatively there are faaaaaaaaar more people who pledged prior to 1990. However, I am talking about those people that I know personally. I know as many Sorors and Frat ( and other Greeks) from pre-pledge days as I know of those who have not pledged. After almost 10 years, you stop asking what a person did while they were on line...the stories only vaguely change with embellishment here and there.

I am from the school of thought that basically says if you want to be technical everyone from FA90 and on are "new school" regardless to what may be real by way of process.

I take offense to anyone who would refer to any of my Sorors as paper. It's been said a million times...the real pledging begins after you cross. I know MAD HAZERS that I have not seen since I crossed. Go figure.

Again this is my personal experience.

Originally posted by icytre:
FinerWomanhood,
If I may ask, were you intiated in 1991? Also, when did you graduate from college?

My response to you saying you "see more inactive people who pledged" would be that there a whole lot more people who have pledged as opposed to going through "paper". If I am incorrect, I will stand corrected. Were there many people considered "paper" within the years of
1991-1995? There weren't too many in my area and I pledged Sp. 97. If there was no one considered "paper" in those times, then how could possibly see any correlation.

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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

Actually I guess I am just confused and aggravated when i speak to greeks who act like gang bangers...like if you weren't "jumped in" than you aren't respected. I have a greek home girl who always says that she would give love to her sorors in terms of saying hi and bye to them, because they were her sorors but she would never feel no real bond with them if they didn't come through the "right" way. I have seen girls shunned and totally treated wrong because they were considered paper...i have seen the hurt on peoples faces when someone comes up to them and hugs them for being greek and than immediately asked them what school they pledged at and if they say they went through grad, they get "oh" like pledging grad is a disease. On the flip side, I see interests willing to risk their lives just to ensure no one calls them "paper". For all the stories you hear about orgs getting sued, and all the chapters that get suspended for years on the yard you would think this would make people think twice about beating history into someone's head but it doesn't...it's hard for me to see that initiation is more than wood, when it seems like all the greeks i know are "wood" crazy...Like i said I am all for going through a process and working hard for your letters, there simply has to be a better way than the current way. I was also dating this guy in college that was on line for xyz fraternity and that boy came home every night hurt from a beat down, what is the purpose of this? When i lived on campus the GLO's use to have their initiates run through our campus naked singing their fraternity hymn...what is the point of that? How is beating my ass or making me humilate myself in public going to make me love your organization any more than i would going through in another way?

[Gina_lynn]

People love to use that word "respect" as a reason for violating the MIP of their orgainzation. My question has always been "Who's respect do you want?" If you think that I have to do ANYTHING outside of the prescribed program of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority inc to earn your respect.. I don't need your respect!!! Now whether or not I have a problem with the MIP of my sorority is another question, but Delta, and I'm sure all of the other BGLOs and GLOs have a "proper" way of changing rites and rituals if they are not working. If I have a problem with the way things are spelled out for me to conduct MIP, I have a course of action that I will follow.

The other thing that fires me up is when one greek says who they will or will not respect based on the way they think that person should have been inducted into that organization. Their is only one greek orgainzation on the face of the planet in which I have a say over who gets made and how! I couldn't care less how AKAs, ZPhiBs SGRhos, AXO, ADPi or anyone else is made. I have respect for all of those orgainzations, and if they say they're members, and thier big sisters say they are members, I have nothing left to do than congradulate them and add their name to the Pan Roll Call.

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If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown