Religion a factor?

[Lunarwolf]

Now, I know that most groups were founded with a Christian or Jewish background and have moved away from that so membership is all-inclusive, but I was wondering if religion had ever been an issue for anyone's chapter with regards to an active or a PNM.

One of our sisters was an acknowledged Christian witch. She'd been having some problems with the group as a whole since rumors flew and angry words were exchanged and never retracted. In the end, she deactivated because she felt isolated -which is SO wrong to have in a sisterhood.

Anyway, to my point: At the height of the tension in the house, our president and house mom were having awful nightmares, and the president and VP were both having bad reactions to new hair products. Their conclusion? That the resident witch hexed them.

Besides the fact that this is totally against the rules of karma (any self-respecting witch would avoid a karmic butt-bite) and against Christian ideals, this stupid theory ignored the fact that despite all the problems, the accused loved the girls very much and talked about how they all swooped in on her one day and took her in.

It just really, really angered me, especially since they told my friend who had just signed a COB bid. I wanted her to have a better impression of the group than that close-minded paranoia. *sigh*

I just wanted to know if anyone has ever dealt with a similar situation, (PLEASE tell me if you have -I need some reassurance in that my sisters are not the only silly children in the world) and how you dealt with it. I'm pagan, but I'm not so sure I want to come out to my sisters, seeing the way their minds work when angry.

[PiKA2001]

We've never really had a religion issue in my house before. We have christian , jews, muslims, and hindu. But we 've never had any members with a "new age" religious background I guess. A lot of people are not very familiar with the pagen lifestyle so I can completely understand how your chapter could act that way. Maybe you guys can set up some kind of religious tolerance workshop or seminar.

[AchtungBaby80]

I do know that many GLOs were founded on certain religious beliefs (Christian, Jewish, etc.), but I've never heard of a situation like yours. Whatever happened to diversity?

I think the problem is that a lot of people hear the word "witch" and either freak out or automatically think "weirdo!", which isn't completely fair. As you said, any self-respecting witch would never hex someone so that their hair products didn't work. But people are afraid of the unknown, so while I don't think the reaction of the chapter is justified, I can understand it.

I'm sorry I don't have any good advice for you because my chapter never had a situation even remotely close to something like this, but I do wish you luck in sorting it out. You did say your sorority sister was a Christian witch, didn't you...so what are they all up in arms about?

[Lunarwolf]

Achtung, I think it's the fact that they don't really know anything about the ethics of witches in general, much less a Christian witch. Actually, most of them probably don't even realize that such a thing is possible.

That, and the ex-active in question was involved with some boy-stealing scandal that had the house in an uproar. Honestly, though, she was just trying to get attention from her sisters who had been alienating her. So there was bad mojo, which I guess made it easier for the sisters to point fingers when they had allergic reactions and stress-induced nightmares. In a house that tense, who wouldn't have nightmares?

I'm just scared that if I come out, if I ever get in an argument with someone and their, oh, I don't know, computer crashes and they lose the 15 page paper they've been slaving on nonstop for two weeks, they'll blame it on me. I don't even have the 'Christian' thing to protect me.

[Little E]

I would reccomend for SG&D you bring in a religious studies prof and talk about religious differences. Having a professional knowledgeable in this area moderate a discussion between sisters might help. As you know AST was founded on Christian ideals, but we in no way are a Christian Sorority and the minds of the sisters who feel this way need some exercise. Talk about the problems and differeneces. I would also treat the example in the beginning as though more was going on. There may have been other issues that you are not aware of, or even privledged to mention here. Stealing boys is not Trustworthy. I don't care how upset you are, it is childish and has no place in the sorority. Good Luck!

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by Lunarwolf
Achtung, I think it's the fact that they don't really know anything about the ethics of witches in general, much less a Christian witch. Actually, most of them probably don't even realize that such a thing is possible.

Maybe you should do a religious tolerance workshop, as has been suggested. Seriously. Most people I know think witches worship the Devil...

Maybe you shouldn't come out with your own religious beliefs until all this has been worked out.

[astroAPhi]

Actually, we've had problems where girls who WEREN'T religious who worked furiously to remove any aspect of religion they could. It was like they had a vendetta against religion. I would read something inspirational to the girls and if it mentioned anything remotely religious, you could see them shuddering.

I don't care what religion you are, but I don't think it's good for someone spiritually and mentally to be so vehemently against religion. Even as a religious person, I don't think it's good to be so incredibly fanatical about your religion. It's a matter of balance, and it can and will throw off group dynamics when you have a few individuals trying to squelch something as powerful as personal beliefs.

[Kevin]

I think the mindset of the group you're rushing is important. We can talk about how good diversity is (and I won't argue with you) til we're blue in the face. The real issue is, will you be accepted?

You need to decide how important them knowing all about your religious choices is to you. Then you need to decide how you'll present that to them, be it in rush or later. I know in a place like where I'm from (Oklahoma) talking about your wiccan beliefs during rush probably wouldn't fly. Somewhere else where values and people are different, it might be better accepted.

It seems really unfair though. Most groups wouldn't mind having a Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion really. Wiccans to this day still have an unfair stigma attached to them.

Good luck.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by Lunarwolf
One of our sisters was an acknowledged Christian witch.

No comments/advice on your situation, but what is a "Christian" witch? I've never heard of this concept before, and it seems like an oxymoron. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I am curious.

[justamom]

I certainly agree with ktsnake's post. Now let's look a little deeper into this situation as a whole.

WHY would you want to attach a label to yourself? Why must ANYone attach a label when so many other people are ready to do it for you? You are dealing with an issue...a term, that has so many various connotations that it MOST LIKELY will have a negative reaction. Why do you feel the need to do this?

I am not saying you will ever change your ideology of paganism-but you might. The LABEL of Pagan would be very difficult to shake even if you have 5 kids packed off to church every Sunday.
Your personal beliefs don't need to be "announced" they are exemplified in the way you choose to live your life. Thousands of people at the universities don't practice mainstay religion. Yet do they feel the NEED to let each and every person know they see life in a different way?

DO YOU PLAN TO STOP SAYING THINGS YOU DO NOT BELIEVE-
ANY REFERENCE TO THE BELIEF IN GOD, CHRIST? WILL YOU PARTICIPATE IN JEWISH OR CHRISTIAN RITUALS LIKE CHRISTMAS?
IF YOU PARTICIPATE...I WOULD LOOK AT THAT AS HYPOCRITICAL EVEN THOUGH IN YOUR EYES IT MIGHT BE NOTHING MORE THAN
A MEMORIZED SPEECH OR "FUN" JEWISH/CHRISTIAN TRADITION.

I am not saying you should compromise your beliefs ...you, as a Pagan are void of beliefs in a higher power-God...but then, aren't atheists? Or, have I misinterpreted your stance and the definition of Pagan? If I have...then I have proven my point. When I don't KNOW your definition, I will create my own-as will EVERYONE. Please, live your life the way you choose share your beliefs in non threatening situations, but DON'T grab some label and stick it on your forehead. You could NEVER take it back...it's far too juicy. This is an opinion from an old lady who has seen a lot of labels in her life!
Definitions of Pagan compliments of GOOGLE. Which are YOU?
noun-
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan.
adj-
Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
Professing no religion; heathen.
Neo-Pagan.

[aephi alum]

People sometimes have weird attitudes when it comes to religion - particularly if a non-"mainstream" belief system like Wicca is involved. It's not very mature, but it happens.

I've experienced a couple of religion issues...

When I joined my local sorority, I became the first and only non-Jewish member. My sisters were very welcoming, but I heard a few mutterings from others, and someone actually said to me outright, that I was only offered a bid so that I could be the token non-Jew. (The guy who said that turned out to be a total pr!ck...)

One year, our president decided to schedule a chapter meeting on Easter Sunday. It was in our bylaws that no mandatory event, including chapter, could be scheduled on Jewish holidays (including the Sabbath) or on the major holidays of any religion practiced by an active sister or new member. There were several Christian sisters at the time. I asked her to move the meeting, and she refused. Had a big argument with her in front of the entire chapter. She offered to make it later in the evening - I had to explain to her that Christian holidays, unlike Jewish ones, do not end at sunset. Finally she relented and moved the meeting to Monday.

There is a GLO at my school that, I am told, requires new members to swear an oath by Jesus Christ at initiation. This doesn't go over too well with non-Christians. But this is hearsay, as I obviously have not attended an initiation for this GLO.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by Eclipse
No comments/advice on your situation, but what is a "Christian" witch? I've never heard of this concept before, and it seems like an oxymoron. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I am curious.

Maybe I'm confused. When I read Lunarwolf's post, I assumed that her sister was a Christian who practiced witchcraft, which isn't an oxymoron. A person can practice witchcraft and be Christian because witchcraft itself is not a religion. However, when most people hear "witchcraft" they think of Wicca, which is a religion but in my opinion isn't true witchcraft--it's just some trendy modern interpretation of witchcraft. (If anyone who reads this is wiccan, I'm sorry--this is just my opinion, so don't mind me!) Witchcraft is much older than wicca.

Anyway...I'm wondering something, Lunarwolf. Did your chapter know that this girl was a witch before she joined, or was it something that just sort of came out as time went by?

[Kevlar281]

I’m still waiting for the day when we get a pledge who can turn water into wine.

[PiKA2001]

Originally posted by Eclipse
No comments/advice on your situation, but what is a "Christian" witch? I've never heard of this concept before, and it seems like an oxymoron. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I am curious.

You know, I was thinking the same exact thing but I didnt say anything. Truth is ( not trying to sound like a zealous religious fanatic here) there is no such thing as a christian witch because witchcraft is not christian.

[AOcutiePi4ever]

If you *had* to put a label on me, I guess you would say I'm agnostic. Somewhere between Christian and agnostic at least, if that makes any sense. When my sisters found this out (it was in NO way a secret) I know a few of them automatically shunned me and considered me athiest. (And even if I was so, what would it matter anyways?). Anyways, this really hurts my feelings, to this day. I know I would NEVER feel badly towards a sister, no matter what her religion, or lack thereof. Realize she's your sister and you shouldn't judge her by her religious or non-religious background.


editd to add--

Main Entry: [1]ag·nos·tic
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know —more at KNOW
Date: 1869
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god