Nathan Bedford Forrest Birthday was yesterday.

[kafromTN]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are about him.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by kafromTN
Just wondering what people's thoughts are about him.

Don't know much about him except he was an outstanding cavalry commander. I've heard he was also a racist, but really don't know about that.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Don't know much about him except he was an outstanding cavalry commander. I've heard he was also a racist, but really don't know about that.

He was also the architect of the Fort Pillow Massacre in Kansas (during which many slave women and children were slaughtered), and instrumental in the founding of the Ku Klux Klan after the war.

In the fears that some GC folks will feel inclined to refer to this man as a "great American," my contribution to this thread is limited to the above.

[DeltaSigStan]

If it weren't for him, Sally Fields wouldn't have named her son Forrest.

[Tom Earp]

Hmm, munchin03, as some what a Civil War nut and living in Ks/Mo. KC metro area I have no clue of which you speak!

If you have something to link to, please send it to me!

I do not beleive he was ever this far west!

Give me some of your back ground on C W History!

Where was the:
The First Battle of the C W fought.
Where was the Battle of Getttysburg Wes Located.
What was the Last Battle of the C W fought.
Where was the 1s Black CW unit started!

Where did John Brown Start his cruisade for abolition.

What was one of the main and one of the most and most unknown citys on the underground railroad!

Name 3 battles in Mo. Name 3 Battles in KS!

Just want to see where you got your INFO! Well and what you know!

tom-

according to civilwarhome.com, he was there:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/ftpillow.htm

not being a Civil War buff, i don't know how accurate that site is.

I don't know about anyone else but as much as i'm a fan of the South i would never consider Forrestt a great American. The man may have been a great battle general, but killing innocents and non-combantants is a sign to me of a person void of morals. That is not the kind of person who should be leading troops.

And i don't think anyone is going to be lining up to dub him a great American for starting the Klu Klux Klan either.

Kitso
KS 361

[DeltAlum]

After reading Munchkin's post, I decided to do a little (very little) research and discovered this on the web:

"In his first fight, northeast(sic) of Bowling Green, the forty year old Forrest improvised a double envelopment, combined it with a frontal assault-classic maneuvers which he could not identify by name and of which he had most likely never heard..."
Shelby Foote, The Civil War

Uneducated but not illiterate, Nathan Bedford Forrest was a natural tactician who earned the praise of his enemies. Both Grant and Sherman feared this man who entered the Confederate forces a private and left a general. The stories of him are legend.

With Fort Donelson supposedly surrounded he stormed from a meeting where the commanding officers were preparing to surrender and led his cavalry and a number of infantry out of the area without a shot being fired at him.
At Pittsburg Landing(Shiloh) he charged and routed a line of Union skirmishers by himself in defense of the retreating rebel army.
In Murfreesboro, Tennessee he freed a garrison jail of locals imprisoned, according to the Union commander, for attacks on patrols near their farms. Advised to leave after the successful escape the colonel replied, "I did not come here to make half a job of it, I want them all" and proceeded to demand unconditional surrender of the entire garrison. The Union commanders had more men, guns and an entrenched position but surrendered anyway, unaware that Forrest was bluffing.




During Bragg's retreat through Tennessee he used Forrest repeatedly as his rear guard. Later, protecting the Confederate right during the battle of Chickamauga he won the accolades of Bragg's staff when his men dismounted and attacked as infantry, pressuring the Federals to retreat from their position near the creek to one more in line with other Union troops at the LaFayette Road.

Immediately after the battle it was Forrest who reported the Federals were in full retreat to Chattanooga and the Army of Tennessee should attack, sound advice that Bragg ignored. This widened a rift between Forrest and his commander. Bragg, who was having problems with most of his subordinates after Chickamauga ordered Forrest to "turn his troops over" and report to Gen. Joseph Wheeler, fully aware that Forrest had vowed never to fight with Wheeler again. An angry Forrest confronted Bragg over the orders, threatening the Commander of the Army of Tennessee with bodily harm. Bragg never reported the incident because he realized that Forrest was too important to the cause to be jailed for insubordination. Forrest was assigned to an area further west.

His engagement of Federal troops at Brice's Crossroads on June 10, 1864 is considered by many the perfect battle. Union Major General Samuel D. Sturgis, with 8,000 men was marching south into northern Mississippi to block the cavalry from attacking Sherman's supply lines. When Sturgis ran into Forrest's dismounted horsemen he assembled a perimeter around the crossroads. Forrest flanked him on both sides, the same double envelopment that worked so well near Bowling Green. The bluecoats ran. A bridge over the Tishomingo Creek became a roadblock for the retreating army and ever-vigilant for such opportunity, the Confederate general pounced. Sturgis would later write "What was confusion became chaos..." as the rebels pounded the fleeing blues. With less than three thousand men Forrest had destroyed an enemy more than twice the manpower.

Assisting Confederate General John B. Hood in the abortive Nashville Campaign, Forrest could see the end was near for the Confederacy.

After the Civil War, Forrest lent his name to a group of enforcers of the Democratic Party known as the Ku Klux Klan. Disenchanted with the activities of the group he ordered it to disband in 1869, which did not happen. The Klan and Forrest went separate ways but the stigma of his days as slave trader, the Fort Pillow incident and his brief association with the Klan would forever raise questions about one of America's greatest tactical minds."


So, a brilliant commander and terribly misguided man.

Kitso is correct, it would be impossible for me, at least, to consider him great. His personal actions and beliefs taint his place in history.

[kafromTN]

I posted this because I heard some people's opinion about him and after I did some research I found that most of his critics are using biased and sometimes incorrect information.

As far as the Ft. Pillow massacre;it wasn't his fault for a couple of reasons
1] He arrived after the butcher of the soldiers, Generals normally stay towards the back to issue orders.
2] The commanding officers of the fort, which included under their command the colored troops, refused to surrender, thus making them still combatants and you can't take people prisoner if they are still shootign at you. This means it is the Union officers fault as Forrest offered unconditional surrender.

As far as racist goes, he was not one. He did not create the KKK, he was just one of the first leaders. The KKK also was not against blacks, that was a 20th century concept but instead to protect the south from carpetbaggers and the Federal troops who raped and pillaged towns and cities [but those atrocities are never reported]. He defended southerners no matter what race they were. He also dispanded the KKK when their job was done [reconstruction was over] He was in fact a pioneer in race relations. On his railroad he tried to highed blacks in an effort to prevent a dependency on the government for welfare.

Do people think Abraham Lincoln was racist? Even though he made comments such as
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people"
No, because the victors of war write the history, it doesn't make it correct but that is why one must dig deeper for the truth.

stepping off my soapox for now.

[AOII_LB93]

Your horoscope for the day: I sense troubled waters ahead. Steer around this thread and your day may improve dramatically.

[Tom Earp]

As I asked, and found, this was not in in Kansas!!

As we have seen, in any war, there are things that are done, good or bad, We werent there but just reading and interpretating what is written!

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by kafromTN
Union officers fault as Forrest offered unconditional surrender.

As far as racist goes, he was not one. He did not create the KKK, he was just one of the first leaders. The KKK also was not against blacks, that was a 20th century concept but instead to protect the south from carpetbaggers and the Federal troops who raped and pillaged towns and cities [but those atrocities are never reported]. He defended southerners no matter what race they were. He also dispanded the KKK when their job was done [reconstruction was over] He was in fact a pioneer in race relations. On his railroad he tried to highed blacks in an effort to prevent a dependency on the government for welfare.

Do people think Abraham Lincoln was racist? Even though he made comments such as
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people"
No, because the victors of war write the history, it doesn't make it correct but that is why one must dig deeper for the truth.

stepping off my soapox for now.

I would be open to the idea of Lincoln being a racist. He was no great abolitionist in any sense. I don't know enough about Forrest enough to refute your points, but the southern Democratic party was definitely not "race neutral". So, if he was down with them, I'm inclined to think he was racist. Would it be that much of a surprise? This country is built on racism

[OUlioness01]

Originally posted by DeltaSigStan
If it weren't for him, Sally Fields wouldn't have named her son Forrest.

that's my favorite part of the movie, 'cause she told him it was to remind him not to make stupid decisions or something like that. Forrest was certainly the worst decision maker i can think of.

[meridionaleDG]

OH OH!!!

Okay, I am from Mississippi and get this - the county my school is in is named after him (Forrest County).

Anyways, I am a History Major, and in Mississippi History we had a whole lesson on him. Basicly the guy was a jerk, he did a few meaningful things - but his bad outweigh his good.

Actually, he helped found the KKK - but he was also one of the first whites to denounce it. I need to find my notes on him, and I can tell you a little more if you'd like.

We also had to write an opinion essay about a huge problem going on about his statue. There is a statue of him infront of a library in either Mississippi or Alabama. My opinion was to leave the statue there, because it encourages learning. People will see the statue and because of the controversy about it actually learn about NBF. I don't believe anything that encourages learning should be taken away - even if it is a statue of an ignorant man. At least people know why he is ignorant now - and knew such a man exsisted.

I think I ended up saying their should be a compromise, and a statue should be built of a man the city finds as a positive uplifting hero. That way it would give them another person to want to learn about!

Edit: I went and found my packet my professor gave us of a copy of the Prolouge to is biography. I am going to scan it and post it for those who are interested!

[meridionaleDG]

Ag - nevermind. It is so much trouble.

[kafromTN]

Enlightenment06:
Forrest was with the Democratic Party one many issues, but he was against them with resepct to race relations. I do know that he did give a social kiss on the cheek to a black woman [this was not acceptable by many whites, especially since it did occur in Memphis in the 1870s] after speaking at some meeting of the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers" [my understanding is that it was similar to the current NAACP or maybe even the forerunner of it, but I could be wrong as I did not research any further]. So yes without more information I too was inclined to think he was a racist, etc. but what since found more information about him.

Regarding the link on earlier in the thread:
I read another link off that original page and it stated the Confederate troops "...attained their positions close to the fort by improper use of a flag of truce during the afternoon..." This was not entirely true. The what many feel happened, as it is known to have happened on some other occasions is that the second Official Flag of the Confederacy was adopted in May 1863. It had the battle flag as a canton and the rest of the flag was white, this caused some to presume it was a truce flag [white flag] when there was not a strong breeze. That is why they changed it in March 1865 to include a red bar on the opposite end. Hence the troops do not deserve to be called evil due to this misunderstanding.

meridionaleDG:
Which biography is it from? As far as if he established the KKK or not, there is no evidence that shows he did, the only thing available is that he was an early leader of it;no one can prove he did start it nor can they prove he didn't, so I believe he didn't. It is kind of like the urban myths about sorority houses and brothels, people believe it and spread it making it common knowledge, but no one ever researched it to find it wasn't in fact true. He wasn't "one of the first whites to denounce it", he disbanded it in 1869. I know you'll read about Grant stamping it out in 1871, but that too is not true as it had seized to exists as any organized movement. True there were a few groups calling themselves the KKK but they were not in any type of orginization with each other.