Hi-Jacked from DZO...

[AXO Alum]

I didn't meant to completely hi-jack that thread with the letters deal, and I don't want to ruin our little bitch-fest about Nicole planning the wedding and naming the kids () so I am bringing my hijack over here.

My only purpose in stating "Good lord - is AXO the only org that treats its new members as sisters" and "we are proud to show them off in letters" is that lately I have heard so much grumbling about older sisters not wanting to see non-initiates in letters.

If your national HQ says "no" -- then fine by me -- I ain't here to tell you how to run your business. But for AXO, Nationals says "YES - New Members ARE sisters that simply do not yet know Ritual, and they deserve to wear letters like everyone else" -- that is our national take on it. And I think that we should all be abiding by what our national org says. Like I said -- if yours says "no" -- fine by me. But I've heard a lot of members of chapters saying "new members have to earn their letters" or whatever, knowing full well that their national council says new members CAN wear letters.

So sorry to hijack the important issues of DZO, but if you want to take it up, here is your very own soapbox forum....

[33girl]

As this pertains to DZO (hijack! hahahahaha!!) I have seen that a lot of the time locals do not allow their pledges to wear letters, because they may either not have a crest or don't have it in wearable form. They usually wear the words spelled out. One of my friends was pledging the local on campus that later became Theta Phi Alpha. She needed something to wear for colors day, and my Derby Daze shirt happened to be the right color so I loaned it to her. The sisters were really not happy when it was pointed out that she WAS wearing letters since the sororities were all listed on the shirt...

[sugar and spice]

I believe most, if not all, of the NPC organizations allow their new members to wear letters. The only one I have heard otherwise about (from a reputable source ) is AEPhi. There might be a few others, but I know that most of them do allow new members to wear letters before initiation.

I think a lot of chapters are just confused about their national policies. Some of them may be repeating rules from whenever they were in schools years ago, and the rules may have changed since then. Or they just might not know -- I remember a post in in Pi Phi forum where some of the girls said that Pi Beta Phi didn't allow new girls to wear letters, and then a national officer came on and said, "Actually, we do -- and if your individual chapter doesn't, we consider that hazing." (I am not trying to single out Pi Phi here because there are posts from members of ALL organizations who aren't sure whether or not their organization allows them to do this.)

Tri Delta does allow its new members to wear letters before initiation.

I think a lot of local and multicultural organizations are different, too.

[pinkyphimu]

we were also allowed to wear letters from the start. we however, as a pledge class decided that we didn't want to wear stitich on letters until initiation. every chapter on my campus gave the new members...bid day shirts which were screen print shirts with a snappy little phrase like "it is hard to be humble when you are king of the jungle" and the date and the chapter! as a phi, we all wore screen prints and had all kinds of cups, pencils, etc...just not the stitich on letters...

[33girl]

I think some of it is also campus-wide tradition. If something has built up over the years that pledges don't wear this or that, and all the groups follow it, one will probably not break it - that would make them feel more singled out or uncomfortable than not wearing stuff would.

[uwgirl]

I just got initiated into Chi Omega in April and as new members, we were allowed to wear letters. The only thing we weren't allowed to wear was the crest because we didn't know the meaning behind the symbols.

[SDTSarah]

We weren't allowed to wear Greek letters, but we could wear the name spelled out, or "SDT." I didn't have a problem with it...I wouldn't feel right wearing letters that I didn't know the meaning of, but that's me. I don't see it as "earning"...it's really just a meaning that can't be revealed until initiation. It was also a real honor when we finally did get to wear them. I don't really see a problem one way or another...but I also don't feel like I was hazed because I wasn't allowed to wear letters.

Our Bid Day shirts were still really cute, though! On the front, they said, "Sigma Delta Tau Bid Day 2003," and on the back, they have this saloon-type lettering: "Sig Delts...Gettin' lucky never felt so good."

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I believe most, if not all, of the NPC organizations allow their new members to wear letters. The only one I have heard otherwise about (from a reputable source ) is AEPhi. There might be a few others, but I know that most of them do allow new members to wear letters before initiation.

Quite right - AEPhi does not allow anyone but fully initiated sisters to wear the Greek letters. The reason being, you don't know what the letters stand for. It's not dissimilar to Chi O new members not being allowed to wear/use the crest because they don't know the meaning behind the symbols.

Kappa Alpha Theta also does not allow new members to wear letters (my freshman-year roommate is a Theta and told me this).

[sugar and spice]

Here's another thread on the same topic:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...&threadid=1320

[CardinalSM]

Originally posted by uwgirl
I just got initiated into Chi Omega in April and as new members, we were allowed to wear letters. The only thing we weren't allowed to wear was the crest because we didn't know the meaning behind the symbols.

Yup, same thing in my chapter! Our big sisters gave us our first crest so it was really special! I got my crest from my big sis for initiation and also a crest from my grandmother which was the one her big sister gave to her when she was initiated back in 1955! (she was a Chi O at Roanoke) We were allowed letters from day 1, they were on our bid day shirts!

[chideltjen]

We don't allow our new members to wear or display letters (license plate frames, etc) until they are initiated. Basically for reasons that have already been mentioned. They can wear "chi delta" spelled out tho.

Casual observation tho: I don't know how many of our sororities on campus actually let their NMs wear Letters... as in lettered shirts. (Bid Day shirts are a different story.) Within the first few weeks of school, the only sorority sisters I will see in full letters are already active members.
I do remember living in the dorms and an AXO new member lived down the hall from me and was showing me all of her new stuff... which included letters that she was supposed to wear on this certain day. She said these were her "class letters" and they were the only ones she could wear at the time.

So I guess my question is: are there groups that allow newbies to wear letters but put restrictions on it?

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
...a post in the Pi Phi forum where some of the girls said that Pi Beta Phi didn't allow new girls to wear letters, and then a national officer came on and said, "Actually, we do -- and if your individual chapter doesn't, we consider that hazing." (I am not trying to single out Pi Phi here because there are posts from members of ALL organizations who aren't sure whether or not their organization allows them to do this.)

That is also correct. A post in the Pi Phi forum was about new members and letters. Many were under the assumption that new members could only wear the words spelled out. I am glad that new members are not prohibited from wearing letters, but when I was a new member it was a personal choice not to wear letters till I was initiated.

[Silverblue]

I know my chapter was under the impression we couldn't wear letters until we were initiated. We thought it was a Central Office policy. On the up side, now I don't feel so bad about putting that bumper sticker on my car on bid day.

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Here's another thread on the same topic:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...&threadid=1320

Thanks, S&S for the link.

I was simply stating this based on the reaction to my comments in the DZO thread. I felt bad for hijacking the DZO thread, although it was unintentional, so I came over here to clear things up and let the DZO thread go on with business as usual.

As for everyone's comments -- I understand that not every org allows the members to wear letters, and that's cool with me. I was just stating that we (in National orgs - or orgs with multiple chapters) should KNOW where our HQ stands on this issue. If HQ says its okay, then chapter members SHOULD NOT be saying otherwise....the same goes for all the rules! We all know if a member (even one) of one org does something stupid, that the National org takes the heat for it. And to come out in public and say "you have to earn the right to wear letters" or the like, knowing that your nationals does not feel that way, makes your org look bad in the same respect.

My question is this.....don't a lot of groups have secret meaning behind their name? I am NOT asking you "what does your name mean" -- PLEASE do not misread that. It is rhetorical -- just saying that IF your org has a secret meaning behind its name, then what would be the difference if you wear the letters, or the actual words spelled out?

So I guess my thing is this -- do what you do, but make sure you know that is the acceptable way of doing things per HQ (for the national/multiple chapter groups). Peace out!

[LeslieAGD]

Sometimes it's not a national/international policy...sometimes chapters decide individually whether ther want NMs to wear letters. When I joined my chapter, NMs were a allowed to wear any letters...now, they restrict the wearing of Block Lettered Shirts to initiated members, but NMs can still wear date party shirts or other chapter shirts.