What is THIS?????

AXJules · #1 03-03-2003, 03:06 PM

No more Pledge of Allegiance?

I mean, I guess I understand the logic behind it, but it makes me so so sad. Our society is turning so bland and overclarified and it makes me sick.

Doesn't this bother anyone else?

MereMere21 · #2 03-03-2003, 03:11 PM

yeah I'm sure that we would all be distraught if someone here from another country was offended by the fact we said God in our pledge of allegiance

Its so sad that people will get all worked up over ANYTHING, I mean I guess we should change the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and get new money - hell lets start a new country

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T MOVE HERE

I think saying "under God" is a hell of alot better than religious persecution or tyrannical rule - but then again what do I know...I've never had to deal with those things

sugar and spice · #3 03-03-2003, 03:20 PM

Actually, I think this is a great thing.

Right after I graduated, my school district (the one where I attended high school) had a big controversy right after 9/11 because the school district tried to establish a rule where every school in the district had to either recite the Pledge of Allegiance or play the Star-Spangled Banner everyday. A number of parents (and students) were trying to overthrow this ruling because they didn't think it was right for the Pledge to be forced. National media found out about this, made a huge deal over it (since it was just post-9/11), and basically the media attention influenced the district to keep the ruling in place.

Basically, forcing students to say the Pledge of Allegiance does more harm than good. If they don't believe in the things the pledge mentions (most likely the "Under God" part), forcing them to say it will only make them even more angry. It can cause divisions between students, and in a political climate like today's, a student's decision to say or not say the pledge can be used against him or her, s/he can get teased or even threatened because of it. Situations can get ugly. And while I have nothing against the voluntary saying of the Pledge of Allegiance, I don't see why those who feel THAT strongly about it can't just say it on their own time. If you really believe in the ideals the pledge is about, it shouldn't matter WHERE you say it -- school, home, walking on the street -- they will mean just as much to you no matter what.

AXJules · #4 03-03-2003, 03:33 PM

What about removing the words "under God"? I mean, still controversial but at least we're not destroying something that we should be proud to say.
There are people in this country who are Atheist, Christian, Jewish, etc....whatever, that's their own deal. People don't live in America because of it's religious affiliation- you can be anything here. But people who bitch and don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance b/c they don't agree with it......it's about being loyal to your country. If you don't agree with it, then WHY ARE YOU HERE????
I don't know maybe its a double standard or something but it pisses me off.

MereMere21 · #5 03-03-2003, 04:11 PM

oh I think it was the statue of liberty that started this whole mess...

give me your tired, your weak and your hungry.....

damn french....

oh well it pisses me off too. I know this country is a melting pot but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. When the majority of people immigrated here in the late 1800's, they knew where they coming and there were PROUD to bring their heritage and incorporate it into their lives as AMERICANS. Now everyone coming wants to turn AMERICA into their country, not incorporating anything or anyone's beliefs but their own. They think since we have an open door policy that it means to throw away what WE as Americans have earned, fought, and died for.

It offends me to see this bickering over something like that when we are sending people (ALL PEOPLE - black, white, hispanic etc) off to die for another man's war.

Give me a break

texas*princess · #6 03-03-2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MereMere21
oh I think it was the statue of liberty that started this whole mess...

give me your tired, your weak and your hungry.....

damn french....

lol that cracked me up

On a more serious note, I think it is terrible what is happening here. It is not like the pledge of allegience mentions a SPECIFIC 'God' of a religion. It recognizes that there are many different kinds of religions here...

nauadpi · #7 03-03-2003, 04:23 PM

The always interesting part is the "under god" was not in the original pledge of allegiance

sugar and spice · #8 03-03-2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AXJules
What about removing the words "under God"? I mean, still controversial but at least we're not destroying something that we should be proud to say.
There are people in this country who are Atheist, Christian, Jewish, etc....whatever, that's their own deal. People don't live in America because of it's religious affiliation- you can be anything here. But people who bitch and don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance b/c they don't agree with it......it's about being loyal to your country. If you don't agree with it, then WHY ARE YOU HERE????
I don't know maybe its a double standard or something but it pisses me off.

I think removing the words "under God" would remove much of the controversy, but by no means all of it. (And in some Bible-thumping regions of the country, suggesting that they remove "under God" from the Pledge causes more controversy than just suggesting they outlaw the Pledge from schools altogether!) Let's say you just moved here from Japan -- your parents were recruited to work at a job here because they excelled in a field where experts were needed. You come to a country where you speak little of the language, you know nobody, you hate the food -- and you walk into your first class of the day and they expect you to pledge your undying love for this country before you even sit down? Or what about foreign exchange students -- surely we can't expect them to say the Pledge and mean it?

Not everybody in America loves America to death all of the time, and that is (and should be) perfectly within their rights. My biggest problem with the Pledge of Allegiance is that it basically implies that I think that this country is always right and that I stand by every decision our government makes, which is certainly not true. I love America, but I don't love everything about it, I don't love every decision the government makes and I don't always love the things my country does. I think that it's important to question things, and the Pledge's "blind faith" brand of loyalty just doesn't fit my beliefs.

sugar and spice · #9 03-03-2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by texas*princess
lol that cracked me up

On a more serious note, I think it is terrible what is happening here. It is not like the pledge of allegience mentions a SPECIFIC 'God' of a religion. It recognizes that there are many different kinds of religions here...

But it alienates those who don't believe in a God.

AlphaSigOU · #10 03-03-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nauadpi
The always interesting part is the "under god" was not in the original pledge of allegiance

The words "under God" were added by act of Congress in 1954.

SigkapAlumWSU · #11 03-03-2003, 04:45 PM

Even when I was in 1st grade, I never said the "under God" part of the Pledge, although I said everything else. To me, that part just wasn't something that I wanted to say, and I still say it that way, all by personal choice. But yes, I still had to stand every day and say it, and I have no problem with that.

DeltAlum · #12 03-03-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
The words "under God" were added by act of Congress in 1954.

...and signed into law by President Eisenhower, if memory serves. All of us very young kids at the time had to learn to say it differently.

Not being a lawyer, I can't help but wonder if there isn't a First Amendment issue in a governmental organization (a school system which is ordered by a court) not allowing someone who wants to say the pledge his/her right to say it. On the other hand, I've long wondered about the words "under God" being mandated by Congress not breaching the doctrine of separation of Church and State.

Although it seems rather simplistic to say, "If they don't want to say it, don't make them, but let the rest recite the pledge." Problem is that those who choose not to say the entire verbage -- or even the two words -- would undoubtedly be ostricized by the rest of the class, parents, etc.

This is a tough one.

Peaches-n-Cream · #13 03-03-2003, 04:54 PM

I said the Pledge of Allegiance everyday in Catholic school as well as prayed. When I went to private school we didn't say the Pledge which was a surprise to me at 12. I am not sure how I feel about this. All I know is that many American children don't even know the Pledge of Allegiance which is a shame in my opinion.

I saw a story on the local news that a female college basketball player turns her back on the flag when they say the Pledge of Allegiance. That is incredibly rude and disrespectful. If she objects to it, she could just stand and not recite it.

jonsagara · #14 03-03-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by texas*princess
It is not like the pledge of allegience mentions a SPECIFIC 'God' of a religion.

It most certainly does! The Knights of Columbus, a Roman Catholic organization, were instrumental in getting the phrase "under God" added to the Pledge. Are you telling me that a group of Roman Catholics pushed for a reference to a generic god, rather than their own? I think not!

Given that the phrase does refer to a specific god (the Christian God), I think it should be removed. Further, for those who do not believe in any god, any reference to any god should be excluded completely.

MoxieGrrl · #15 03-03-2003, 05:46 PM

I definitely think the option to say the pledge should be there. Otherwise, do like the Jehovah's Witness kids did at my school......just don't stand up! It's not that difficult.

That girl who turned her back on the flag...shame on you.

(Not to pick on Jehovah's Witnesses, but they were the most non-homogenous people at my white-bread school)