How can people get away with revealing secrets?

[swede]

I have recently stumbled across several internet sites that reveal the secrets and rituals of GLOs. I have removed the links and names in an effort to prevent everyone from finding out about our Greek brothers and sisters secrets, however, much of what I read and the comments posted by viewers to those websites leads me to belive much of the information is not true to that GLO's traditions and rituals.

As a proud member of college Greek life I do not like seeing this stuff published. It angers me greatly to think that someone who had a bad experience would publish this information, and that nothing has been or can not be done to stop the spread of private information to the world wide web.

What do you guys & gals think? Is this just their first amendment right to free speech? Or should they be bound to preserve the traditions and history of proud organizations that have given much to our great nation?

[OUlioness01]

I don't know how people can get away with this, but I've wondered if there's a way people could be sued for revealing the secrets. i'm sure people who are initiated have to sign some sort of contract about not revealing ritual.

[ChiOmega4Me]

Tell me about...it is very upsetting to me, being a chi o and all! I haven't been initiated yet (1 more month!!!) but I have absolutely NO desire to see what is on that website....I wouldn't want such a special and meaningful thing ruined. I just hope that fellow greeks have the respect not to read it too. It annoys the hell out of me when smart-a$$ fraternity guys act all big and bad and say they know all of our ritual, I just think that is downright disrespectful. I wish there was something that could be done about that, and I don't know how the whole freedom of speech thing affects it, but I would love for that girl to get in a LOT of trouble for what she did.

[MoxieGrrl]

I believe that this was discussed ad nauseum a while ago. Try doing a search on it, and I'm sure you'll find a ton of more information and views on the issue.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by MoxieGrrl
I believe that this was discussed ad nauseum a while ago. Try doing a search on it, and I'm sure you'll find a ton of more information and views on the issue.

Many of the threads on it have been deleted, as this one eventually may be (especially if it turns ugly). For example, the mother of the person who does that Chi-O page sometimes flames the board (and gets banned). I'd advise you to take the html for the Sigma Chi page out of your post. I know our Sigma Chi's won't appreciate that.

[AXO Alum]

Swede --

If you want to talk about how such things *anger* you, then you need to remove the links to the sites where people can find out these things!

That's why your first link to the Chi-O crap showed up as *****

Please go back and edit your post to remove the link to the Sigma Chi crap.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by swede (in part)
What do you guys & gals think? Is this just their first amendment right to free speech? Or should they be bound to preserve the traditions and history of proud organizations that have given much to our great nation?

I think (1) that anyone reading the info on sites like these should exercise a healthy dose of skepticism about their accuracy, and (2) we shouldn't be helping people find those sites by posting URLs here.

It has nothing to do with the First Amendment -- that merely prohibits the government from abridging free speech rights. And I doubt there are many signed contracts out there where initiates agree not to reveal secrets.

No, I imagine that members of most GLOs took an oath, a solemn promise not to reveal the secrets of our fraternity. The willingness of some people to break that oath by revealing those secrets tells me much more about those people and their lack of honor and integrity than it does about any GLO's ritual.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
I doubt there are many signed contracts out there where initiates agree not to reveal secrets.

No, I imagine that members of most GLOs took an oath, a solemn promise not to reveal the secrets of our fraternity.

I think a lot of the garbage on sites like those have proven to be just that, garbage. The stuff is simply not true in many cases.

Now, for our brothers and sisters who are members of the bar, I have a question and would be interested in your opinion.

There is a lot of rumble about "verbal contracts," particularly in the hiring/firing/laying off arena. "My boss has talked to me about attending an industry meeting in September, so he has led me to believe that I'll be employed AT LEAST until that meeting."

My question: Can a sworn oath (fraternal oath) be considered a verbal contract, and can someone who divulges secrets from a closed ritual be sued for revealing that information?

Also, I would suspect that an organization who copyrights it's ritual might have some recourse through the copyright laws.

Of course, the law often doesn't make much sense to the layman, so what do you attorneys think?

[IvySpice]

My question: Can a sworn oath (fraternal oath) be considered a verbal contract, and can someone who divulges secrets from a closed ritual be sued for revealing that information?

Hm...maybe not.

A freely given promise can never be a contract. A contract is by definition an EXCHANGE of promises. It's my very tentative understanding that many GLOs have language in the oath saying that initiates are freely choosing to undertake the obligation. If so, that's called a gratuitous promise, and it's unenforceable. The oath might be an oral contract IF there were a mutual oath of some kind, where the initiate and a representative of the organization each made promises to one another.

However, every state has a law called the statute of frauds. The statute of frauds says that any contract which cannot be completely performed within a year must be in writing, or it is unenforceable. While a promise to carry a secret to your tomb could theoretically be fulfilled within a year if you died within 364 days, in my state, a lifetime promise is within the statute and cannot be enforced unless it's in writing.

Another problem is that in most states, a contract with a minor is voidable. In other words, if you initiate a 17-year-old, and she enters a contract, upon reaching 18 she can repudiate the contract if she chooses.

The last contract possibility I can think of would be a "promissory estoppel" theory. If A makes a gratuitous promise, and B reasonably relies on that promise to his detriment, A may have to compensate B for his loss. But in this case, it would be really, really hard to prove that B (the GLO) suffers a compensable loss when the secret is revealed. Ritual is not like a trade secret, where competitors will gain an advantage if they know it. Further, would a court hold that it was reasonable of the GLO to expect 200,000 intitiates to keep their mouths shut for 65 years apiece? I think most courts would hold that some leakage is to be expected, and that would prevent recovery under a promissory estoppel theory.

You might attempt some kind of tort (injury) claim. Famous people can sue for invasion of privacy if personal information about them is published and their reputation is injured, even if the info is true. If some part of the published ritual is false, and the former initiate knew it was false, there might be a libel claim. If the initiate was trying to get back at specific individuals in the chapter, you could try suing for intentional infliction of emotional distress. In my opinion, any of these would be a Hail-Mary suit.

In short, in some states you might find a lawyer who'd be willing to try, but my money says you'd lose. Ultimately, this is about trust, not law...you have to hope that the people you choose as your brothers/sisters will keep secrets because they promised to not because you can sue them if they don't.

Ivy, J.D.

[kddani]

Wow Ivy, great response
Although it's definately making me feel guilty for being on GC when i need to study for my torts and contracts finals!!!!!!!!!

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by IvySpice


Hm...maybe not.

Oh well. It was a thought. Very good reply. Thanks.

[Kevin]

They do get away with it...

It's just when they're caught their membership is null and void. The Fraternity will also make the attempt to buy back at a reasonable price their badge and other insignia.

[MysticCat]

IvySpice's response pretty much sums it up. I would add one thing, and that has to do with copyright protection. While some argument might be made that rituals are protected by copyright (that would be debatable and would depend on specific circumstances related to each individual ritual), the idea of going to court to protect that copyright wouldn't fly. By filing a copyright protection suit, a fraternity or sorority would have to make its rituals public, since the court is a public forum. Going to court to protect the copyright would be contrary to the main goal -- keeping the ritual secret.

[IvySpice]

By filing a copyright protection suit, a fraternity or sorority would have to make its rituals public

Depends what you mean by public. Courts can have semi-private proceedings or protect privacy in other ways. This is going on right now with some al-Qaeda suspects, but it happens more commonly in trade secret cases.

Let's say a startup company steals Coca-Cola's recipe and uses it to sell its own soda. In Coca-Cola's suit against the company, it would have to reveal its recipe to the court in order to prove that the startup was using the same one. Usually, the judge has power to close the courtroom and order that the records be redacted -- which is just a fancy word for black magic marker censoring the secret language.

The judge, law clerks, and opposing counsel would still see the unredacted documents, but they WOULD be bound to be quiet about it; if they revealed anything, they could be disbarred.

The bigger problem I see with a copyright protection suit is that the simple fact of its filing would be public, and that alone would draw lots of attention to the offending web page (or whatever) in the meantime.

Ivy

[crystalline]

Someone once told me that a copy of every org's ritual books are in the Library of Congress. I hope that's not true, because then, technically couldn't anyone read about them?