PFA vs. NPHC, NPC, NIC, and locals

[SilverTurtle]

This question is basically out of my own curiousity

Please bear through all the background info, so my question makes some kind of sense!

Where I attended school as an undergrad, greek life was pretty small. There were a total of 9 GLOs. (Please note, I am not including BGLOs because we didn't have NPHC chapters exclusive to our campus (they were city-wide chapters), so they therefore had little if any involvement in on-campus greek life).

Out of these GLOs, 3 were national. And all members of PFA (APO, Phi Mu Alpha, and Phi Beta). The remainder, obviously, were local chapters.

Greek life was governed by the Greek Council. The 3 local sororities were also governed by their own PanHel Counil. (This was secondary to the Greek Council, though).

All of the chapters had reps on Greek Council. While the locals were a little more centered on partying and the PFA members more so on their professional aspects, all of us were also focused on community and campus service. We did things together, all of the chapters participated in Greek Week, Greek Sing, etc. (or at least were invited and encouraged to do so).

So one day I was looking for a link to a webpage of one of my fellow collegiate chapters (to link to our chapter site), and couldn't find it. I went on the university's webpage, and couldn't even find Phi Beta listed (actually, I finally did.. listed among honorary orgs, but no webpage). When I emailed the then-president of that particular chapter, she informed me that the school doesn't recognize professional fraternities (therefore, any PFA members) as "fraternities" in the sense that they do w/ the NPHC, NPC, and NIC fraternities and sororities (I don't think their campus has any locals currently). They view them strictly as honorary organizations. Which means they don't participate in any greek councils, events, etc.

In my experience, greek was greek. PFA GLOs simply had an academic/professional focus that also shaped their service and purpose. It wasn't until talking to other people that I found out that many schools take this attitude w/ professional GLOs.

So, after all that, the BIG QUESTION is:

How are/were PFA orgs treated/viewed at your school (and by you)?




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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[Siobhan]

At my school (UBC) we have 15 GLO's - all of them are international organizations (7 NPC and 8 IFC)

Siobhan

[cash78mere]

At my school, we had Alpha Phi Omega, Alpha Kappa Psi and I think one other service org. We had honoraries also, but they weren't clubs, just something to put on your resume.

Although the members of APO and AKPsi took their membership seriously, greek members looked at them like a joke. They were people who couldn't get into a "real" greek org, so they joined one of those. (NOTE--These aren't my personal opinions, I really don't have any opinions except to each his own) The funny thing is that they were really serious on pledging and non-serious hazing but GLO orgs were STRICTLY forbidden from mentioning the words hazing, pledging, pledge, etc. Most GLO's thought they were a little silly to actually wear letter shirts around campus when they weren't "really greek".

Within the orgs, their "brother/sisterhood" was very strong. They were both co-ed and very serious about their activities. I have to admit it bothered me when they considered themself a fraternity/sorority, but I never had a negative opinion on them, just as i said before, to each his own.

My roommate was in APO and she adored it to death. She loved meeting members of other chapters and doing all of the service that she was required to do. And the AKPsi's are all about business, since they are a professional business frat.

Each group had a rush (GLO greeks had recruitment) and even had formals and date functions. They even held house parties like the GLO's. They were not, however, included in any type of NPC or greek government board, they really had no one to look out for them but themselves. In regards to respect, in all honesty SilverTurtle, GLO's didn't give them much. But what mattered was that THEY loved what they were doing and their bond was always strong.

Like I said, I didn't really care either way about what the groups did, but I always heard the gossip (as any other college kid does!). I didn't consider them greeks, but I didn't consider them as lower than anyone else. If that makes sense. I hope this helps and I don't mean to disappoint or disrespect. I just always think it is better to tell it like it really is. I'd be happy to answer more specific questions if you have any.

I almost forgot--I went to a small southern university that was not professionally oriented. We didn't have pre-med or engineering or anything else of the sort so that may have made an enormous difference. We were a liberal arts univ.

[This message has been edited by cash78mere (edited June 26, 2000).]

[BFulton]

I'm curious - why would it bother anyone that certain Greek Letter Organizations (such as professional or honorary groups) called themselves fraternities or sororities? They are legally called by Greek letters, have enduring traditions & private rituals and, in some cases, are older than certain social/general GLO groups.

I will admit to being tired of and offended by the notion that our wearing of letters is "silly." We teach our members the different categories of GLOs - respect for other groups rather than disparagement. To me, looking down on other groups simply perpetuates the stereotype of fraternities and sororities being snobs. What do these groups gain by this attitude?

(Sorry if that sounds harsh - my Irish temper just ran through here... )

[This message has been edited by BFulton (edited June 26, 2000).]

[PenguinTrax]

SilverTurtle,

In my (limited) experience with 2 or 3 campuses, professional Greek Lettered orgs are not considered a part of campus Greek life in the same sense that the NPC, NIC, NPHC and multi-cultural groups are considered. They are not represented on any type of Greek Council and are not 'governed' through the Greek Life office. The exceptions to that would be APhiO and GSS, which are usually part of Student Activities, but not Greek Life.


The groups I have known were all organized through the colleges that represented them (ie. college of business sponsoring AKPsi or DSPi). They were considered 'honorary' or 'professional' societies and as such reported to their various major professors or sponsors. They held their own philanthropy events, social events and fundraisers. They never showed any interest in mingling with the other Greeks on campus unless they also had membership in one of those groups. Even when 'all-Greek' events were publicized on campus or through Student Activities, these groups never participated as representatives of their organizations.

These groups were not considered 'fraternities', even though they called themselves by that title. These orgs weren't looked down upon, but they were regarded in the same light at other campus clubs, like the Spanish Club or Amateur Radio folks.

I think your campus is unusual in the way it co-mingled the various professional GLOs in with the social GLOs.




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Fraternally,
Barbara
Zeta Tau Alpha Alumna

If you have to go around telling everyone you're in charge you're not much of a leader.

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

From a social point of view...the PFA orgs at Howard U were not regarded...at all. They did not have a council. They served the community of professionalism in their chosen field. However, the members of course are very respected in the majors. The only ones, that stick out but I am sure their were more were delta sigma pi, chi eta phi, kkpsi, tbs, phi mu alpha, and sigma alpha iota. If I was not a Fine Arts minor, I probably would not have even been hip to the last 4 I mentioned

Quite honestly, I thought it was kind of crazy the way they emulated the NPHC orgs with line names, numbers and in some cases even a call. My question was WHY? WHY? WHY?

They just don't get the same "love" on HBCU (Historically Black College and University)campuses. Primarily because PFAs are viewed as a temporary/college thing. Tradition is very important at HBCUs and many of us are following the legacy of family when we pledge...and it is understood before you even express an interest you are seeking membership in an organization with a lifelong committment.

Originally posted by SilverTurtle:
This question is basically out of my own curiousity
How are/were PFA orgs treated/viewed at your school (and by you)?

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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

[BFulton]

Thought a little background on professional fraternal groups might be useful to those without much exposure to them. (Taken from the PFA site - www.profraternity.org.)

"Professional*A professional fraternity is a specialized fraternity which limits its membership to a specialized field of professional education in colleges and universities offering courses leading to recognized degrees therein. It maintains a mutually exclusive membership in that field and organizes its group life specifically to promote professional competency and achievement within its field -- as well as providing social opportunities for its members.

The same incentives that moved men to form general fraternities brought about the creation of professional fraternities as professional schools came into prominence in the 1800's. In order to advance their own professional interests, these fraternities limited their membership to students pursuing courses in their particular field of study.

The factors which brought about the formation of the first professional fraternity are not well known, but historical records indicate that about 1819 at Transylvania University, Lexington, Kentucky, a society was formed known as the Kappa Lambda Society of Aesculapius, organized for the purpose of bringing the members of the medical profession together.

Of the professional fraternities in existence today, Phi Delta Phi in the field of law was the first established, being founded in 1869 at the University of Michigan. Nu Sigma Nu, the first organization admitting medical students only, was established at Michigan in 1882. Also in the same year and on the same campus, Delta Sigma Delta, the first dental fraternity, was founded. In 1902, Alpha Chi Sigma was founded at the University of Wisconsin for students in chemistry. Two years later, 1904, Alpha Kappa Psi was organized at New York University for students of commerce, closely followed on the same campus by Delta Sigma Pi in 1907. About this same time Theta Tau was founded at the University of Minnesota for engineering students, and Phi Delta Kappa was chartered at Indiana University for students in education.

A rapid growth in the number of professional fraternities followed until today there are nearly 50. A large majority of these, representing fields like architecture, business, chemistry, dentistry, economics, education, engineering, law, medicine, music, nursing, pharmacy and veterinary medicine are banded together in the Professional Fraternity Association.

NOTE: Comprehensive information on fraternal history can be obtained from Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities, which served as the source for the information above."

[SilverTurtle]

originally posted by Finer WomanThey just don't get the same "love" on HBCU Historically Black College and University)campuses. Primarily because PFAs are viewed as a temporary/college thing.

Just to inform anyone who may not know.. PFA orgs are not temporary.. they are commmitments for life, as with any other fraternity or sorority.

Also, I agree w/ 33girl that 1 of the reasons it was different at my school was because we didn't have NPHC or NIC orgs.

First, thank you all for your honest opinions, views, statements, etc.

Second, I'm happy that my school was different in this aspect. When I first joined my GLO, I had no interest in "greek life", but as I became more active, I realized the value of having all of the GLOs working together (and playing together). There were differences between PFA orgs and "the rest" of the GLOs, but there wasn't as much division as all of you have expressed.

To give you my personal view:

I look at professional GLOs and see professional fraternities. Their focus just happens to be on their area(s) of professional interest. They are founded on very similar ideals to other orgs. Their rituals are comparable. Their intake processes are often similar. Their founders made a decision to represent themselves with Greek letters for the same reasons that the founders of NPC, NPHC, NIC, and local GLOs did. To me, this isn't much different than joining a BGLO because of your interest in and dedication to promoting and uplifting the black community. (It's something close to your heart, for whatever reason).

I can understand where everyone's coming from.. we all had different experienecs. And PFA orgs do tend to 'do their own thing' a lot.


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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[SoCalGirl]

On my campus I've talked to quite a few members of AKPsi and APhiO and basically they all either straight up told me or gave me the very good impression that they don't consider themselves greek. I found this really surprising because I knew it to be very different at other schools. One APhiO told me that they didn't even have to learn the alphabet! I was stunned.

We only have two councils. One for IFC and one for NPC. All of the professional or honorary orgs fall under student activities. So they all regulate themselves I find it interesting though that only members of AKPsi and APhiO wear letters or hold any type of rush.

We also have 4 Asian GLOs and soon to be 3 Latino GLOs. None of them have any type of council or representation at the standing ones. None of these GLOs participate in Greek Week or are included on Greek Rush Week posters. Some are listed in the student activities brochures as service, some as multicultural orgs, and some under "greek lettered orgs". What's funny is that none of the NPC or IFC chapters are listed uder that.

Also only one of the Asian sororities partcipates in Sigma Chi Derby Days, and the already established Latina sorority participated in Sigma Nu's philanthropy last year.

I'd like to see all these ethnic GLOs have a voice on the councils as affiliates. I wouldn't expect them to conform to all of our policies. I'd all enjoy seeing them at Greek Week. It'd be nice to see AKPsi and APhiO think of themselves more as Greeks but our campus is so anti-greek that I don't see that happening any time soon.

[33girl]

Being a member of A-Phi-O and an NPC sorority, I've got a dual point of view.

A Phi O was founded by an SAE. It was originally based on Boy Scouts. It is a SERVICE fraternity that has social aspects, but they are NOT allowed to have houses and I believe there is something in the national constitution that says chapters are not supposed to join greek councils (unless there are special circumstances). We were always having to explain, yes we have Greek letters but we are not "social" Greeks.

A couple years after I graduated, I saw a Greek Week t-shirt that had A-Phi-O on it and about $h!t. From both my points of view, that was wrong.

Finer Woman 10-A-91 brought up some professional orgs having a call, etc. Apparently at some HBCU's there are A-Phi-O chapters that do this too. I don't understand how nationals is OK with that.

Silver - it sounds like your school is an exception to the rule. If you had a national Panhellenic/IFC (as opposed to Greek council) it would probably be very different.