Question for you present lawyers....

UF_PikePC98 · #1 10-29-2002, 06:41 PM

I've made it known that I plan on joining the same family as the one you all have joined, becoming an officer of the court.

After consulting many of my friends in Law School at UF and as well as my dad, I decided to give a speech in my public speaking class........on DUI's.

I wanted to be helpful to the students who drink and drive and try to prevent the evil justice system from getting them on more than they deserve.

So, in my speech I told them many things. One of those things was in the instant that you get pulled over, just relax. If you know you're fuc*ed up...just chill. If you know the smell of Vodka is blasting off your tongue with every word you speak, just chill.

Try to get by the police with recieving only a violation of whatever traffic rule you broke. However, odds are the police are going to suspect you of drinking.....they always suspect that.....even in the day time. I told the students " If the police ask you to take a sobriety test...tell them no and that you feel it's entirely uncalled for." I besure to stress to them to only do this if they are without a doubt they will fail the test. If they ask you to take a breathalizer test, tell them NO! This will save you about 1500$ plus attorney fees if you try to fight it.

My theory was this, if you know you're going to bomb both tests...without a doubt.....do not submit you're self to more punishment. You will automatically go to jail regardless as well as loose your license. However, you will not get a DUI if they cannot test you. They will have no proof of failing any such test, only the fact that you refused to take it. This way you will not have to pay the hefty DUI fees....(In the state of florida, they're like 1500.00$)
You won't have a DUI on your record.

All but one of my friends in L.S. said that is right, however...one of the more abstract thinkers of the group said....." I would say take the test.....then you could get by on a case based on faulty machines/breathalizers."

My question.....what are your thoughts on this?

kddani · #2 10-29-2002, 06:55 PM

Don't drink and drive...

I know it's probably an annoying mantra to most people. But how hard is it for one person to be a designated driver? Or shell out a few bucks for a taxi.

I had always counted myself among the blessed to never have lost someone to drunk driving, until this summer, when my uncle was basically run over by a truck (drunk driver, who incidentally was an illegal immigrant and fled the country- drama extraordinaire- the family is going after the truck owner's insurance company -driver didn't own the truck, was his brother's) while riding his motorcycle.

I know this isn't what you were looking for... but you know that no one's going to support you here.

And just if you really are serious about law school, you'd best avoid situations such as this. The bar doesn't take too kindly to these sort of things when you're trying to get admitted.

Drunk drivers should get every penalty that can be bestowed upon them. You can't argue that your night of drinking and partying justifies the risk you are assuming when you get behind that wheel of killing someone.

C'mon, you're a smart guy. Think about it.

APhi · #3 10-29-2002, 07:01 PM

Uhhmmm...

Under Colorado State Law a roadside test is voluntary (most people don't know that) but refusal to submit to a breath or blood test is an automatic one year suspension of your license. It only makes sense to refuse the BAC test if it's your second or third offense and you're facing that penalty and a whole lot more.

My uncle is a lawyer and his son got a DUI (in the state of Iowa.) He said, flat out, there's not much a lawyer can do in cases like this. If there's alcohol on your breath you will be asked to test. If you test over a .05 you will be charged. Once charged, you're pretty much facing an iron clad, mandatory sentencing ordeal.

By the way, $1500 is a low estimate. I've heard the average DUI will cost you about $10,000 by the time you finish paying off the SR-22 insurance along with everything else.

APhi · #4 10-29-2002, 07:07 PM

Okay, I just re read your post and your point was that you'll lose your license anyway. That's not necessarily true. I know a guy who got a DUI. They let him plead to a DWAI. That's 8 points on your license which won't cause a revocation unless you've already got a hefty DMV record.

But like KDDani said... Just don't do it. It doesn't matter how much control you THINK you have. Lots of people still die every year.

kddani · #5 10-29-2002, 07:09 PM

APhi, i think your insight into the Colorado law is applicable in almost every state..... i don't know Pa's well enough yet to say for myself, but in general everything you said makes legal sense. Very good post.

Sorry UFPike, but your ideas may sound good in theory, but legally don't hold much weight.

RedRoseSAI · #6 10-29-2002, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Don't drink and drive...

I know it's probably an annoying mantra to most people. But how hard is it for one person to be a designated driver? Or shell out a few bucks for a taxi.

Amen to that. Drunk drivers are brainless scum. Brainless because they think they're sober enough to operate a car and scum because they don't care who they hurt in the process of going to the next party/bar/home.

UF_PikePC98 · #7 10-29-2002, 07:22 PM

Danielle,

You're making this into a personal issue with yourself. Only because your uncle was killed by a drunk driver.

That is a horrible thing to have happened. I know what it's like to have lost a family member. I lost a cousin. She was murdered in St. Petersburg, Florida....... 6 years ago. It was extremely hard on me.

However, I was looking at them as if I were their defense. I never said I condoned drinking and driving......because I don't.

My question was not asking what your thoughts on drinking and driving were, but rather on the theory I made to those who might get stuck in that situation.

For example.....Last fall term.....I was a certain fraternity house for formal pledging......seeing the new members. Afterwards I had a few beers.....we'll say across street to avoid any conflicts....

So, when I left to go back to my place at 3:00am.....A car came flying out of the tennis pavillion and almost ran me into the former president of UF's front yard. Well he didn't. Instead I chased after him and planned on jumping out of my car and beating him down at the next red light......well, he didn't stop at the red light when he saw me chasing him. We both blew right through an intersection. Then outof no where another car came flying into the scene....he thought it woudl be funny and try to race the two of us. Suddenly 5 cop cars came out of no where and cut the road in half that we were on. Meanwhile the car that almost ran into me and blew through the red light got away. Keep in mind, I only had 2 small cups of cheap beer.....

So, the cops stops me....makes me get out and gives me a sobriety test.....I pass.....however, he smells beer on my breath and offers me a chance to take the breathalizer....he says if I pass, I can go home without a violation....

If not, he's writing me a ticket for speeding, running a red light as well as not having my seatbelt buckled.

The other cop thought he'd be nice and decided to tell me he didn't think I was drunk but said it was very easy to fail....he advised me to call someone to come pickup my car and have another drive me home....

By now I was rage'ng. The one time I wasn't drunk after drinking, and I get pulled over and have this done to me.

So my choices were.....either A: take about 400$ worth of tickets or B: take my chances with the breathalizer......

I thought about it.....and figuered 400$ of tickets were better than a night in jail and a DUI.....despite me not being drunk....

At the time I was on probation for walking around publicly with abottle of Jack Daniels at a football game. So I couldn't fight it in court or else that woudl have violated my probation and I would have been in more trouble.

It was a bad situation for me and by giving my speech I wasn't condoning drinking and driving but rather trying to help those who might be stuck in my position as well.

As for the Florida Bar...There's ways through it.

I had a buddy recently admitted who had 2 Assult and Battery convictions. He also had a DUI when he was 19.

There's ways through it.

greeklawgirl · #8 10-29-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by APhi
Under Colorado State Law a roadside test is voluntary (most people don't know that) but refusal to submit to a breath or blood test is an automatic one year suspension of your license. It only makes sense to refuse the BAC test if it's your second or third offense and you're facing that penalty and a whole lot more.

You just took the words right out from under my fingers. In many states, refusal to submit to a test will automatically suspend your license for one year. Furthermore, if the state decides to prosecute you, the prosecutor *can* tell the jury that you refused to submit to a test. A jury will make its inferences from there...and usually that isn't good for a defendant.

On a personal note, I totally agree with kddani. Five years ago, my friends and I were hit head-on by a drunk driver. His car got caught between our car and a concrete median. He was so drunk that he threw his car into reverse and rammed our car 3 more times to leave the scene of the accident. The car was totalled, a friend of mine has permanent scars on her face from the impact, and I have chronic fibromyalgia that I will have to deal with for the rest of my life because of this jack---.

A fun night out on the town isn't worth the pain you could cause yourself and others. Designate a driver, or call a cab.

UF_PikePC98 · #9 10-29-2002, 07:30 PM

APhi...

In Florida, your D.L. will be lost regardless of whether or not you take the breathalizer.

if you take it an fail....you'll lose it....

if you refuse....you'll lose it...

however, if you refuse.....you're going to jail but you won't be out of 1500$-10,000$ from fines and fees....

That was what I was trying to help them avoid....

AlphaSigLana · #10 10-30-2002, 12:27 AM

Please remember that the law depends on what state you live in.
If you need legal advice contact my professor Sharon Potter-- she defended Derek King--This was a very big case recently. Anyway I've learned a lot about the law in her class. I know this isn't what you'relooking for, but sometimes it is best to speak to someone who has a lot of experience with the law.

G8Ralphaxi · #11 10-30-2002, 12:38 AM

hey UF Pike - are you going to stay at UF for law school? who do you know here? I'm finishing my second year this semester.

and regarding the FL bar...yes there are ways around it, and we've all heard stories about "my friend's older brother who robbed 32 banks and killed someone" and still got admitted, but BE CAREFUL. the bar admissions people in our lovely little state are cranky old twits and really get their panties in a bunch about alcohol/drug related problems.

...maybe because they know attorneys all end up alcoholics?...

speaking of alcohol, you should go with your friends to the law school's halloween party - it's always great. (one of the law school parties where even the people who insist they are "too cool to go to law school parties" still know they have to be there)

but back to your advice...absolutely NEVER DRINK AND DRIVE.

but, for the sake of argument, if someone ended up in this situation (at least in FL) - no way in he** should you agree to that test. sure, you lose your license. and man, that cop is gonna be cranky with you.

note: do not try this if there is ANY chance at all that you have any items of "questionable legality" in your car (i.e., drugs or even alcohol if you're underage). refusing the test will likely be probable cause for the cop to search your car (as well as you and every passenger in the car), and if that cop finds anything, you're still going to jail but in huge trouble now.

anyway, assuming getting your car searched isn't going to cause any problems, losing your license for a year and getting a traffic citiation is definitely better than definitely getting a DUI added on.

now, the people who said that you could still be arrested for driving drunk are right. so let's say the cop says your breath smelled like alcohol, your eyes were bloodshot, and you were slurring your words. fine. so you have a trial. the cop may not be able to show up to testify. then you are free. even IF the cop shows up, any halfway decent defense attorney will be able to pick holes in the cop's testimony. believe me, there are usually holes. (this info comes from my friend who just started working at the jax. state atty's office) remember the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and if there's any shakiness in the prosecution's argument, the jury will most likely be nice to you.

but AGAIN, the easiest solution is to just bribe a friend to be DD. or geez, gainesville is not that big of a town. from downtown bars to most apt complexes is a cheap taxi ride. usually no more than 5 miles.

...wow, that was a long post. too bad i'm not an atty yet so i could charge someone by the hour for that analysis. haha

UF_PikePC98 · #12 10-31-2002, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G8Ralphaxi
hey UF Pike - are you going to stay at UF for law school? who do you know here? I'm finishing my second year this semester.

...wow, that was a long post. too bad i'm not an atty yet so i could charge someone by the hour for that analysis. haha

To answer your question....if I can pick up my GPA a little more I'll go to UF's L.S. If not, I'll have to go to some private college like Stetson or Miami. The problem with Stetson , I've heard, is that it is only good for those who want to go into litigation. UM is good, but not the most "prestigious" L.S. in our state. The upside I see about Miami is the fact that if I decide not to work for my dad...I'll make better connections at UM than Stetson.

Oh...and by the way.... THANK YOU for seeing what I was trying to tell these people.

On greek chat people tend to twist things around and sometimes don't quite get what others are saying...and without actually thinking about what was said....they blast off at the mouth.....I've been guilty of that as well.

** To clarify things.....I was not telling people to go out and drive after getting shit faced....and then...."This is how to get out of it." I was trying to help them keep from getting a DUI.**

UF_PikePC98 · #13 10-31-2002, 12:54 AM

Ohh and I almost forgot....

I'll post their first names but not their last....this is not private...

Priscilla ( Prissy )......

Goose ( His real name is Mike )....

Maria

Diana

Ben

Wes

and a few others who started this semester.

G8Ralphaxi · #14 10-31-2002, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UF_PikePC98
To answer your question....if I can pick up my GPA a little more I'll go to UF's L.S. If not, I'll have to go to some private college like Stetson or Miami. The problem with Stetson , I've heard, is that it is only good for those who want to go into litigation. UM is good, but not the most "prestigious" L.S. in our state. The upside I see about Miami is the fact that if I decide not to work for my dad...I'll make better connections at UM than Stetson.

Good luck with everything - I assume you know by now that Spring admissions is slightly easier at UF. Hands down, we are the best law school in the state, and one of the best in the southeast. If you get into UF, definitely accept it.

if you don't get into UF, I would consider FSU - generally viewed as the #2 Florida law school by both students and law firms. All the "prestigious" firms will schedule interviews at UF, and most of them will also go to FSU. All the in-state good firms will go to FSU too. Miami gets attention mainly from S. Florida firms.

Stetson is usually viewed as 4th place (after UF, FSU, UM). It's smaller and in a smaller city, so you're right, it's harder to network there.

hard to tell if I know the people you're listing from just 1st names, but I think I know some of them. I know Prissy's friend Dulcy pretty well, and I know several people in this new class because I helped out during their orientation. the law school is a pretty small community - weird change after the zoo of undergrad here.

good luck with everything, and glad you're not driving around drunk.

Kevin · #15 10-31-2002, 10:41 AM

In OK we have "informed consent" and by signing your drivers license you give them the right to search your vehicle and conduct a breatherlizer test (I believe that's the law here or at least it was when I was 16)