How to go about change?

[MikeBFiji]

I'm wondering how your chapter has gone about changing traditions that may not be in the best interest of the chapter?

I come from a pretty good chapter. We're always among the top two in grades, have a good rapport with the univeristy, win the Greek Excellence Award year after year and try to be involved in other groups on campus. However, sometimes I feel we could still clean up. Our IFC brought Dave Stollman of Campus Speak to talk about recruitment. One of the issue he keyed in on was cleaning up the greek community. One way to do this is by monitoring the shirts your chapter prints. They should be clean and reflect the positive aspects of your fraternity, even the shirts from formals and socials like our famous FIJI Isle/Islander/Grass Skirt. Sure I love to read funny shirts but I'm pushing for shirts I can where in front of parents or to work. The older guys argue "If the person can't take a joke then we wouldn't want them anyway" or "The person probably doesn't know one organization from another and everyone else is doing it so why change"

Another tradition at Ball State, and not just the greek community, is getting up at 5am on homecoming and drinking pretty much till 5am the day after. I have a great time partying and feel it is reward for working hard through the week, but how can I get others to see that these activities reflect poorly on us as a chapter and as a greek community. This year we're going to try to have a brunch for older graduates not from our chapter b/c these are the men that helped get our chapter established 7 years ago and most of the current members don't know these graduates. When I told two of my brothers about this they replied, "I know I won't be there b/c I will be drinking by then"

I am mainly gaining resistence from the older guys. Most of the guys from this past fall pledge class understand this reasoning.

[neonsparkles]

Hey I go to Ball State also (I'm looking forward to homecoming with your chapter!) and I definitely understand your concerns. It seems that it is harder for people to change the traditions from the past... but something that could work is to use examples of chapters who did not change their traditions and are no longer on our campus. I don't know if you went to the alcohol summit, but I believe Linda was serious when she talked about groups on probation not getting a second chance... I feel as though one mistake for most any group might be one of their last.

I say keep pressing for events such as your brunch... if guys don't show up it will be their loss in the long run. Hopefully the younger guys and the older ones who care about keeping their charter will be there... and over time things will change. Just let people know you arent trying to stop them from having a good time, and drinking on homecoming is certainly fun, but there is a time and place and a way to do it a little more responsibly (not that I have noticed your chapter having a problem with that). Also, mention that they are there for brotherhood, these are the guys who started the chapter and if it weren't for you them you would not be brothers.... certainly that is more important than drinking and if it isn't they need to reevalute why they are there.

[winneythepooh7]

I think change can come with the alumnae. If alumnae stop doing a certain behavior(s) that can speak volumes for the new/active members. For example, what the alumnae "do" or "do not do" during alumnae weekends towards the new members.

[33girl]

As far as the shirts are concerned, I know I'm old but I have never understood the point of printing a different t-shirt for every mixer and event anyway. We had Greek Week & Derby Daze & that was it. Why not just wear letter shirts instead?

[Little E]

At our officer academy one of our national officers or Mary Ann Callais (I don't remember who) told a story about seeing a young man in the airport with his letters on, then she saw the back of the shirt which would be enough to make Paris Hilton blush. She gave him a lecture about the shirt and told him that if he was smart and cared about the meaning behind his letters he would take the shirt off and put it in a drawer and bring it out when his 16 year old daughter went on her first date and give it to her date. She left to get on her plane and they had to wait for one more passenger to get on, it was that kid, and he had changed his shirt. (I thought it was a great story)

Maybe they need to realize first hand that people, including alumni, see the shirts and don't want their children or families associating with that image.

My best advice is get the younger guys to visit with alumni, you can't control everyone. Don't talk about where everyone else is, they are your brothers be discrete about their real activies (don' lie though). Change starts somewhere, I'd do what you can and it might take a while, but if you are persistant (with out harassing them) eventually it will happen, or they'll graduate.

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by 33girl
As far as the shirts are concerned, I know I'm old but I have never understood the point of printing a different t-shirt for every mixer and event anyway. We had Greek Week & Derby Daze & that was it. Why not just wear letter shirts instead?

Maybe it's because at my school no one really makes shirts for anything other than recruitment and Greek Week, but I've always wondered the same thing.

[doves95]

Originally posted by KLPDaisy
Maybe it's because at my school no one really makes shirts for anything other than recruitment and Greek Week, but I've always wondered the same thing.

1) You cant wear your letters if you are drinking! (at least sororities cant im not sure about fraternities)..

2) Its nice to have something to remember the event by and wear on campus for recruitment/PR purposes to show the different events the chapters participate in. If that's the case why bother making NCAA game t-shirts, or playoffs, or any other shirts organizations make for their different events. You wear them to promote your organization.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by Little E
At our officer academy one of our national officers or Mary Ann Callais (I don't remember who) told a story about seeing a young man in the airport with his letters on, then she saw the back of the shirt which would be enough to make Paris Hilton blush. She gave him a lecture about the shirt and told him that if he was smart and cared about the meaning behind his letters he would take the shirt off and put it in a drawer and bring it out when his 16 year old daughter went on her first date and give it to her date. She left to get on her plane and they had to wait for one more passenger to get on, it was that kid, and he had changed his shirt. (I thought it was a great story)

Maybe they need to realize first hand that people, including alumni, see the shirts and don't want their children or families associating with that image.

My best advice is get the younger guys to visit with alumni, you can't control everyone. Don't talk about where everyone else is, they are your brothers be discrete about their real activies (don' lie though). Change starts somewhere, I'd do what you can and it might take a while, but if you are persistant (with out harassing them) eventually it will happen, or they'll graduate.

That's wonderful! I think you have a good head start, by getting the younger guys to understand. The older guys will graduate (not soon enough), but in the meantime, keep up the good work. Change has to come from within, and if the younger majority makes the decision to maintain a good repuation, it just may wear off onto the older ones. They do have to prepare for the Real World, after all!!

33girl & KLPDaisy, I'm in total agreement. Some of the Greek t-shirts I've seen have embarrassed me to tears - and they're not even from my GLO!!

[AGDee]

If you can't drink in your letters, then how does a shirt from the event show PR? That means the shirts can't have your letters on them. The whole point of not drinking in your letters is because it's bad PR! Having t-shirts with your sorority/fraternity name and some obscene saying defeats the whole purpose.

To the OP, I agree with the others who are saying that you should encourage the younger guys to follow the right path with the knowledge that the older guys are going to graduate soon anyway. Additionally, be careful in recruitment which type of man you're recruiting and be good role models for the new members so that they model your behavior and not the older guys' behaviors.

Dee

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by AGDee
If you can't drink in your letters, then how does a shirt from the event show PR? That means the shirts can't have your letters on them. The whole point of not drinking in your letters is because it's bad PR! Having t-shirts with your sorority/fraternity name and some obscene saying defeats the whole purpose.

That's exactly what I was wondering.

[gpb1874]

you're taking a crucial first step......making the decision that something needs to be done and gathering supporters. those are the first two steps in creating change. i went to a session by dave stoleman too and here are his steps to a chapter enema (some i've left out b/c these are more for cleaning house membership wise):
1. build a coalition (what you are already doing with the younger guys).

2. tighten language (look at the constitution and by-laws to see if there is anything that could help you out. do you vote on shirt designs, or does someone just make them? if the chapter must approve, maybe you could get your coalition to vote against them)

3. review performance (look at how these shirts are affecting image.....have an advisor or good alum who thinks this stuff should stop talk to the chapter too. sometimes it works if it comes from an undergrad and an alum) You could also talk to IFC or whoever decides on award winners and make an addition to the qualifications for the award....positively promotes the chapter and greek community. should the most excellent greek chapter on campus have tasteless shirts? that would be a good way to make the change happen in the whole community and not just your chapter. in the end, it could be a peer pressure thing to encourage each other not to make those shirts.

4. recruit new blood and train them the right way, which again, you are already doing. it will take some time and most likely those older guys will need to leave or at least not be in power positions for the change to really occur. just keep at it and don't give up!

[Rudey]

100 man hours spent building a house for poor people...

vs.

100 man hours spent pretending your chapter is run by Jerry Falwell.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by mcellpe
I am glad there are others in the greek world that think that organizationally sponsored immaturity is reckless, and a huge threat the the whole movement.

Funny, they never seem to remember how many houses you built for poor people when they're demonstrating on your front lawn.

Right. Huge threat. You want a huge threat? Shut down all your chapters at those party schools.

Demonstrating on your front lawn? If people demonstrate on your front lawn it's for a different reason. Well some other huge threats you may want to tackle are hazing, deaths, violence, rape, cheating, etc.

People don't demonstrate because you made a funny shirt that says "ABC - Do you know where your girlfriend is?" They demonstrate because you did something that clearly crossed a line and is unjustifiable.

Of course, if this kid's chapter really is so great then he shouldn't have to worry about anyone demonstrating on their lawn and your point is irrelevant from the start.

-Rudey

[MikeBFiji]

Thank you all, you have made some good points. The reason for some of the older guys resistence is b/c the things we put on the back of our shirts is a huge joke. What they don't understand is others, especially outside the greek community, may not see the phrase as a joke b/c they don't know we're gentlemen of quality and do not reflect "Animal House."

I think change can come with the alumnae. If alumnae stop doing a certain behavior(s) that can speak volumes for the new/active members. For example, what the alumnae "do" or "do not do" during alumnae weekends towards the new members.

Unfortunately, our graduates can be attributed to part of the problem. Since we've only been charted for five years the ones that still show up to events are somewhat immature. And to build on the problem they are the guys that could drink four or more days a week and still pull between a 3.5 and 4.0.

Again thank you for all your advice. I will just keep pressing on.

Just to reply to this post:

As far as the shirts are concerned, I know I'm old but I have never understood the point of printing a different t-shirt for every mixer and event anyway. We had Greek Week & Derby Daze & that was it. Why not just wear letter shirts instead?

We design a variety of shirts every year b/c we all like to wear our letters with pride. Like we made baseball jerseys last year b/c we did really well in IM softball and expect to do well this coming year. We also make shirts for our "Powder Puff" philanthropy and put the sponsors on the back so they get advertising.

[exlurker]

I just wanted to reinforce what several others have said about wearing letters "with pride." "Pride" in a historic inter/national brotherhood (or sisterhood, for sororities) seems to me to be very different from wearing obscene or tasteless sayings.

For instance, the consulting firm that evaluated and reported on the Greek life situation at California State - Chico earlier this year said:

". . . everyone is wearing their function shirts that basically perpetuate every stereotype out there"

Many of us know that Ball State Greeks, especially fraternities, have had a lot of unfavorable publicity lately. (Not your chapter, perhaps, but the system.) It hasn't been nearly as bad as the Chico situation, but I absolutely agree with their consultant's point, and what other GCers have been saying. The vulgar "joke" shirts do a whole lot more harm than good to the image of Greeks and individual chapters.

About the brunch idea -- sounds like a wothwhile event. Is there a way that parents could be invited and welcomed at it , too? Dads and moms might like the chance to meet their sons' brothers, and it could be amazing how much less people would drink if some parental units were mingling.

Best of luck.