Is chivalry dead?

Japera1920 · #1 04-09-2002, 01:24 PM

Is chivalry dead? The reason why I pose this topic because I had a young gentleman hold the door for me when I enter a building. I said thank you to him as I proceeded throught the doorway.

A women behind me stood in shock and stated "I guess chivalry is not dead!" It is really sad when you have to make comments like that. I do nto think it is unusal for a man to open a door for me or pull out a chair. This is something that should be expect and not to be done only at special occasions.

TLAW · #2 04-09-2002, 02:04 PM

LOL
No, chivalry is not dead. There are a whole lot of gentlemen out there, who will open doors (car or otherwise), give up seats, and even pay for a date with no strings attached. No woman should demand less. My momma beat such actions into me (literally) at young age.
Ladies, YOU need to teach these traits to your sons.

undacuva22 · #3 04-09-2002, 03:13 PM

I agree and disagree with TLAW. First let me get to the issue of LADIES teaching chivalry to THEIR sons. Last time I checked it was a man and a woman to have a child so why should only the mothers have to teach this to their sons. I believe that a mother can teach it and a father can reinforce it . LOL ( You know I still love you Tlaw) . Now chivalry is not dead I would say it seems to me or from what I have experienced that guys( well the ones that I ahve been exposed too) only open doors if they are trying to "get with me" or if I am dressed a certain way. I have never had a guy open the door for me whne I was in jeans and a t shirt or my work out clothes. But if I am dressed casual they will open the doors. Honestly I say that mostly white men have been openning the doors for me. So do you think that chivalry is more taught or harder instilled in other cultures? I am not even sure how to answer that question myself. Now brothas out their will open doors, but those kinds seem to be hard to find, well atleast here in South Carolina. Its kind of funny to think that because you think that chivalry was mainly taught in the South with those "good ole southern values" but what ever happened to those anyways????????

I think that a man has more of a chance getting my "digits" when they open doors and show chivalry then when they are like" yo, shawty" oh or my favorite "woahh de lil mamma" and cannt leave out that ever so popular whistling deal they do. Why do they do that" I cannt seem to figure out? what ever happened to simply approaching a lady and asking what her name is?

Guys wonder why women dont talk to them when they do that stuff and its basically simple, ITS RUDE!!!!! Then what gets me everytime is when I ignore all the cat calls and they want to start calling us the b word and think that we are stuck up. its not that its just that cat calling is showing a woman that you are not willing to go the extra effort to walk over to her and talk to her like a civalized person. The attitude and respect that you show us on our initial interaction is the same that we will dish back to you...

okay time to end this cause I am moving off to a whole new topic

I will just say this last thing, I think that it is best summed up with the quote from the head and shoulders commercial: You never get a second chance to make a first impression" fellas and sometimes ladies should think about that!!!!!

sphinxpoet · #4 04-09-2002, 07:15 PM

Chilvarly is not dead if you demand it from the people you are with.........A lot of times women forget they have more control over how men act then they think. If women started demanding better treatment from men then they would more likely recieve it. Most men are going to conform thier behavior to what makes them think they are going to get ladies......so if thugs are in more men will act like thugs and if nerds are in men will act like nerds!

Sphinxpoet

undacuva22 · #5 04-09-2002, 09:03 PM

but why should we have to demand that men show us chivalry? Why cannt they give it when they have that first interaction. I disagree in a way because I think that if a guy calls himself a man then chivalry should be a part of his character as a man!!! True if a woman first meets a man that shows no chivalry why should she ask him to change six months into the relationship. If she doesnt like how he is when she first meets him then either she should demand that he shows her that level of respect and attention or just walk away and leave him alone

TLAW · #6 04-10-2002, 08:21 AM

Awww c'mon Unducuva... quit giving me a haerd time!

What I meant about women teaching their sons is that we accuse men of not being gentlemen. Well, somewhere down the line, through the ages, some of our fathers forgot to pass down some valuable knowledge. It could be said that a lot of men don't know how to be chivalrous. This is why I said what I said, tongue-in-cheek of course!
In a perfect world, women would not need to demand such behavior. Nontheless, teaching our young men to be gentlemen depends on the fathers, and when they don't know what to teach, mothers can show their sons how to treat herself and other women like ladies. And, though I mught just be wistful, I think we black men are better behaved than other races when it comes to chivalry.

19Aaron63 · #7 04-10-2002, 12:02 PM

Greetings to all...is chivalry dead I certainly hope not!!!

I disagree with Sphinxpoet (sorry brother) that a woman should demand better treatment from her man. Why should she have to demand something that she deserve. I was raised to give the up most respect to women and the elderly.

Now, as I have gotten older (42 yrs. old), I have adjusted those rules to fit the present situation I am in. For example: when I am riding the Metro (subway) if a teenage girl is getting on and all seats are taken, do I let her have it no. (unless she is handicap or have childern with her) But, let a woman of 30something or older get on, I will offer my seat. Opening doors: always when letting a lady into my car. When walking into a building: a) if she is with me....yes .... b) only a few feet behind me.....yes c) if her hands are full or small kid(s) in her arm yes....Now I do have a 5 seconds rule....if I have to wait more than 5 seconds.....no.

Japera1920 · #8 04-10-2002, 12:53 PM

Sphinxpoet,
A woman should not have to demand any chivalry from a man. These are things that I expect from men when I am out on a date or just a general stranger. It also should not be a control factor when it comes to men on how to treat a woman.

I am a lady so therefore, treat me as such. These are just common general manners. When I see a gentleman that does not act accordingly I call them on it. These are things you are suppose to do. These are not things to be withheld for the special someone in your life.

I should not have to tell a man, “Open the door for me or pull my chair,” etc.

JMHO

Shelacious · #9 04-10-2002, 01:23 PM

I'm going to defend Sphinxpoet a bit here. I don't think he meant "demand" in the literal sense. I think he meant more that generally men only do what women, by tacit and implicit acceptance, allow them to do. When women don't get the courtesy afforded to us by gender and common sense, then we should respond accordingly. I've seen too many women, when confronted with a man who does not open the door for us, or doesn't pull out our chair, merely accept his behavior as deviant and unlearned. Just like there are many young women now a days who are raised to be profligate with their bodies and unmindful of general femininity and etiquette, let's not forget that young men have been raised by these same parents. Therefore, what we look at as disrespect may indeed be ignorance.

Women "should be" the emotional centers in the male/female continuum. We do have a lot of control over what men do and do not do--and not always by speaking. Our actions, a smile, a nod, a shudder, a simple suggestion, can work wonders.

I have a very good male friend who had a bad habit of being wonderfully chivalrous when the mood was good, but deficient when he was angry. We had a disagreement, and when I came around to the car, he was already sitting in it. He refused to open the door for me. I asked. He refused. I went back into my house, and I didn't talk to him for a year. We are friends again, and he has since learned that no matter how upset he becomes, common courtesy is still in effect. This is an extreme example to be sure, but I could have just as easily sighed and gotten into the car anyway. I would have been reaffirming, however, that it's okay to lose the chivalry bit whenever the mood strikes.

Final note, I have noticed a certain percentage of women who get offended when a guy tries to be chivalrous. They look at the guy as old-fashioned or trying to "coming onto them." Therefore, I've seen chivalrous guys become "shell-shocked" trying to determine whether we will be offended or not. Men, just do it anyway and women, just accept it for what it is--common courtesy.

PrettyKitty · #10 04-15-2002, 10:35 AM

no it's definitely NOT dead!

Six_Three_Sigma · #11 04-15-2002, 11:31 AM

Chivalry is definitely not dead. When I was brought up, it was definitely not taught in the cribbo by my grandmother. (Why I don't know.) So it was/is something that I am definitely not used to.

BUT, I must say that I am currently trying my hand at it with my mate. (Of course, since I never did it continuously, I "slip" sometimes.) It may take some time, but it should become second nature.

On a side note, I don't think that I was not being a gentleman by not being "chivalrous". (I hope that was a word). I was being a gentleman the way I was raised to be. So, I suppose it's all about perspective.

GOMAB

lilZetagirl · #12 04-21-2002, 12:24 AM

you know (disclaimer: this is not male bashing in anyway shape or form) men will do and/or get away with what we WOMEN allow them to...

if we hold them to higher standards, they will raise to the ocassion. if we continue to accept substandard behavior, then OF COURSE that is what they will continue to offer! i mean think about it, why open the door, pull out the chair, walk on the outside (closest to the curb) if he doesn't think it is expected of him?

but to answer the question, NO i do not believe chivalry is dead, i am a living witness, BUT i think alot of it comes from our expectations and standards!

Zetaphied · #13 04-27-2002, 12:39 PM

Chivalry isn't totally dead, but the number of men whose mama's raised them right isn't that high. Alot of guys will open a door for you, if you happen to be coming through a walkway ahead of them, but don't know about opening car doors for you or just plain old manners. The days of courting a woman are gone, most guys date you, come beeping their car horn at your mama's door and don't stop to pay their respects to your parents. There aren't alot of guys that have old fashioned values, where they know enough to come to your house and introduce themselves to your parents and state their intentions, possibly because they have no intentions of sticking around LOL...it's funny because when older folks try and teach us these type of old fashioned values we laugh at them, calling them outdated when in retrospect there is alot of wisdom in their way of thinking.

shani · #14 05-01-2002, 01:33 AM

I was just asking myself the same question when I had 5 grocery bags in each hand with no one to help open the door?

Koss28 · #15 05-01-2002, 10:30 AM

I don't think chivalry is dead at all but sometimes a guy has to be careful how he uses it. I graduated from UT @ Austin and a couple of times, I'd see some guy open a door for a woman and get cursed out followed by "chivalry died a long time ago!!!" The guy would be standing there stunned looking around like what the hell just happened. I read an article in Ebony magazine awhile back that gave pointers to guys on when and when not to show chivalry. If a woman gives me that chivarly is dead quote, I just apologize and move on. Best you can do.