CIVILIZED DISCUSSION PLEASE - Legalization of Drugs

[KillarneyRose]

This is not a subject I've studied in the past, but a terrible tragedy in nearby Baltimore a few weeks ago has really got me thinking.

A family of 6 was killed when their Baltimore rowhouse was firebombed by a known drug dealer in retaliation for the mother of the family calling the police on him. It was the second time in the past few months that the house had been firebombed.

Now, I realize that if drugs were legal this would probably not have happened. And, part of me thinks that since alcohol is legal, why not drugs? But I had a few questions I would like to throw out for others who might be more familiar with this concept than I am...

1. Where should the drugs come from? Would the US buy the drugs from Colombia or wherever they're smuggled in from or would we buy/make our own?

2. Would the drugs be given away? Or would they be sold? If they are sold, wouldn't there still be a problem of people who are addicted and unable/unwilling to work who would commit crimes to finance their habit?

3. Would they be given away/sold under medical supervision?

4. Would the amount each person can get change as they continue to need more and more to maintain their high?

5. Would there be a problem with disgruntled dealers pressuring addicts to continue buying from them? Violence?

6. If drugs were legal, would more people become addicted to them? If so, what about all the drug addicted children who would be born? Would provisions be made for their care? How about addicted parents not being able to take care of children? Would this overburden an already shakey foster care program?

7. Would there be a certain age at which people could buy/receive drugs? If so, wouldn't there be a problem trying to keep them from underage people?

8. Would first time drug users have to undergo counseling or something to inform them of the physical dangers inherent with drug usage?


Even though I think my conservative bent is very well known on this board, drug legalization is something I could see myself endorsing. But only if it would make things better. If it opens whole other cans of worms, I don't think it would be worth it.

Thanks, everyone, for your input! And remember, no flaming! Everyone's opinion is welcome; just play nice!

[madmax]

I vote NO, and I think that the government should start frying all the crackheads especially those that firebomb, rape, and murder.

[Imthechamp]

I vote no too. I have three uncles who are cops and everytime we get together, they have another story about a dumbass who is high or drunk that killed or beat someone.

[KillarneyRose]

Thank you for your input, Max and Champ But what I am really looking for is not a debate on whether or not drugs should be legalized, but for someone who is more familiar than I on the issue to address the questions I posted.

[Kevin]

Illicit drug use is a HUGE part of the US economy! We dump billions into law enforcement to stop it, billions into locking up those few that are caught.

I'm not for total and complete legalization so you could buy crack at the grocery store but I think that there is a compromise that we could come to with many drugs. Marijuana for example... Not addictive, not as damaging as alcohol and not as harmful as cigarettes.

I think that if we were to model a program off of Holland or Great Britain it would serve society well. The laws are NOT stopping people... They ARE ruining the lives of recreational users that get caught. It is throwing away tax money that could be better spent on education or even given back to the taxpayers (we pay too damned many taxes).

[valkyrie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KillarneyRose
1. Where should the drugs come from? Would the US buy the drugs from Colombia or wherever they're smuggled in from or would we buy/make our own?

I'm not sure about this, but would guess that we would probably import drugs like cocaine (do we have the environment in the US for that?), but I'm sure there would be many happy to grow marijuana right here. I would also guess that there would be labs set up here to create things like E and LSD.

2. Would the drugs be given away? Or would they be sold? If they are sold, wouldn't there still be a problem of people who are addicted and unable/unwilling to work who would commit crimes to finance their habit?

In my perfect world where drugs are legal, they would be sold at stores, like Osco or Walgreens. I don't think that anyone could or should expect to get them for free. I'm sure there would be a few people who might commit crimes to finance their habits, but I think the most important effect of legalizing drugs would be that the prices would be A LOT lower. Buyers wouldn't be financing drug dealers and gang bangers, so everything would be cheaper. I don't know if there are people out there committing crimes to buy some beer or vodka or cigarettes -- I doubt it, but I suppose anything is possible.

3. Would they be given away/sold under medical supervision?

No. My opinion is that as long as you aren't hurting anyone else, you should be able to do what you want with your body -- so I don't see why a doctor should supervise. How would HMOs handle this? Anyway, my thought is that doctors are for treating medical conditions -- using drugs isn't a medical condition, and therefore unless there is a problem, I don't think they should be involved.

4. Would the amount each person can get change as they continue to need more and more to maintain their high?

I don't know. If I remember correctly, with LSD, for example, you need more to get the same effect, but only if you're doing it twice in a short period of time. Most people don't do it that often, so no, you wouldn't need more. I think this would maybe be an issue with cocaine, but I'm not sure. I have a book on this topic, and if I have time later I'll look it up and let you know what I find.

5. Would there be a problem with disgruntled dealers pressuring addicts to continue buying from them? Violence?

I don't think so -- I've never heard of a liquor store clerk chasing down an alcoholic. If it's in the mainstream like alcohol, I don't think that this would be a problem.

6. If drugs were legal, would more people become addicted to them? If so, what about all the drug addicted children who would be born? Would provisions be made for their care? How about addicted parents not being able to take care of children? Would this overburden an already shakey foster care program?

I'm sure this has been studied, but I don't know.

7. Would there be a certain age at which people could buy/receive drugs? If so, wouldn't there be a problem trying to keep them from underage people?

Again, it's the same with alcohol. I would almost argue that there shouldn't be a drinking (or a "drugging") age because I think that makes it only more appealing and exciting for people who are under age. But I don't know. Again, in my ideal world that doesn't exist, there would be no drinking age and children would learn to be responsible from their parents and not need the government to tell them what not to do -- but I know that's not going to happen.

[B]8. Would first time drug users have to undergo counseling or something to inform them of the physical dangers inherent with drug usage?[\B]

No. Who would do the counseling? Who would order it? Pay for it? I think that would be much too much government intrusion into an individual's life. I don't think the government has any business ordering such a thing.

I've thought about this a lot, although I haven't really studied it. IMHO, legalizing drugs would actually save this country a lot of moeny. We spend tons and tons of money for law enforcement to fight a war it can't win, not to mention all the money spent putting people in jail for mere drug possession. Your tax dollars are, right now, being wasted (in my opinion) on keeping some guy locked up for having a little weed in his pocket as he was walking down the street. I think that is a huge waste of time, money and energy.

[Rudey]

If you really want to talk about money why don't you analyze the entire situation under an economic lens?

-What gets covered under insurance costs?
-Will insurance costs change?
-Who would cover these costs?
-Are taxpayers going to want to cover treatment, recovery, emergency expenses, etc. of people who made the decision to choose drugs? If you think the government shouldn't cover it, then who would?
-If people are willing to steal for items costing a few bucks, would this really change things?
-What is a drug? How are these drugs different from painkiller prescription medications?
-What are the costs involved with literally destroying the pharmaceutical industry by disolving their intellectual property rights?
-What would the strain be on the FDA?
-What are the costs of developing an entirely new system to provide checks and balances similar to pharma's?
-Who pays when things go wrong? Would the government be liable?
-What kind of countries would develop these "drug" economies?
-What kind of trouble do you run into when an economic system becomes one product (think banana countries)?


-Rudey
--If reading that didn't make you want to smoke Jade, I don't know what would.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
If you really want to talk about money why don't you analyze the entire situation under an economic lens?

-What gets covered under insurance costs?
-Will insurance costs change?
-Who would cover these costs?
-Are taxpayers going to want to cover treatment, recovery, emergency expenses, etc. of people who made the decision to choose drugs? If you think the government shouldn't cover it, then who would?
-If people are willing to steal for items costing a few bucks, would this really change things?
-What is a drug? How are these drugs different from painkiller prescription medications?
-What are the costs involved with literally destroying the pharmaceutical industry by disolving their intellectual property rights?
-What would the strain be on the FDA?
-What are the costs of developing an entirely new system to provide checks and balances similar to pharma's?
-Who pays when things go wrong? Would the government be liable?
-What kind of countries would develop these "drug" economies?
-What kind of trouble do you run into when an economic system becomes one product (think banana countries)?

This may seem like a gross oversimplification of the issue... But wouldn't we have literally BILLIONS of dollars saved on law enforcement and prisons and such? I think those dollars (or probably just a small fraction of them) could easily be reallocated.

Another thing I wanted to add... As far as those Banana Republics.. It is the US and its demand for illegal drugs that has kept these countries down. Our drug trafficing industry keeps these warlords in power and kills thousands of innocents. It is wrong and it needs to stop. Legitimize the business and companies like ADM would be cultivating the stuff putting these warlords either out of business or forcing them to become legitimate.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I would check out the Libertarian Party's Plank on Drugs. They give a pretty detailed explanation of their plan for re-legalization.

Oh, and whether you agree or not, vote tomorrow!

[aephi alum]

Interesting question.

I believe that marijuana should be legalized, and that there should be a set smoking age for both tobacco and marijuana... maybe 16, as it is in the UK for tobacco. I also believe that the drinking age should be lowered, perhaps to 18. But, I believe that the really dangerous stuff, cocaine, heroin, etc - should remain illegal.

All children should be required to take classes wherein the dangers of drug and alcohol use/abuse are laid out. That's not really a change - it was part of my health education curriculum when I was in high school.

For illegal drugs, law enforcement needs to concentrate its efforts on shutting down the main supply lines rather than picking off the leaves of the tree. Yes, it's easier to bust some small-time drug dealer and whatever unlucky customer happens to be there, but it's more effective to go after the trunk and major branches of the system.

[ZTAngel]

I'd vote no on the legalization of drugs such as cocaine and heroin.
I'd vote yes on the legalization of marijuana. I do believe that there should be some restrictions marijuana much the same way there is on alcohol. There should be a minimum age of purchase as well as laws that prohibit driving under the influence.
Our jails are very overcrowded. Many of the people in the jails were farmers who grew marijuana or college students who got caught selling. I just don't feel that people selling marijuana should be placed in jail with people who have raped or murdered.

[poodleNtraining]

Well, I have several different views of this question.

On the one hand, if drugs were legalized, they would have to go through strenuous testing by the FDA and they'd have to be regulated. All the drugs that come in from whereever would have to be tested and have to meet a certain standard.

Drug dealers and the like would be out of business because retailers could get drugs and charge less than the dealers. Plus with so much competition, the profits to dealers would dwindle incredibly.

Crime wouldn't necessarily decrease. There would still be drugs, only they'd have to get them at the store. This will increase shoplifting and robbery, putting many more innocent lives at danger.

Lets look at prohibition. When alcohol was illegal in the 1920s, there was PLENTY of bootlegging. When the law was repealed, and the "thrill" of having something taboo was gone, alcohol use didn't dwindle, it got worse. Making something availabel to all just means more can get it and abuse it.

As far as medical benefits, that only applies to marijuana, and only for some illnesses. And marijuana IS addictive, or else it wouldn't be the illegal industry it is today. It impares judgement, makes reaction time slower, among other things. It affects the lungs and all that just like cigarettes. Yes cigarettes are probably MORE addictive, but marijuana is still addictive. Just because its "natural" doesn't mean its ok. Poison Ivy is natural. Shoot, crack comes from a plant for that matter. Tobacco is a plant. All things natural aren't good for you. And think about this, if marijuana is legalized mainstream, not just medical, they'll probably fiddle with them too, like they did tobacco, adding all kinds of crap to it to make it MORE addictive. You know how the government rolls...

But I don't think they'll ever do it, there's more money in it being illegal. More political manouvering and the like. They're not gonna give that up.

[AOIIBrandi]

I'd say yes legalize them.

My theory would be to treat drugs just like alcohol... Sell it in stores, have an age limit 18 or 21, have certain rules and laws such as not driving while under the influence...I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
I just don't feel that people selling marijuana should be placed in jail with people who have raped or murdered.

Exactly, that sh*t costs us money!

[APhi]

Having been to Amsterdam, it was my understanding that drugs aren't LEGAL there. They are just decriminalized. England just made moves in the same direction. Remember the Pulp Fiction speech... It's still illegal to walk down the street with but they can't search you.

That's what I'm essentially in favor of, decriminalizing, or essentially looking the other way when it comes to less than an ounce of marijuana. In Holland, less 14 year olds have experimented with pot than here in America. If it weren't illegal and the mystique behind it were removed I believe rates of use would actually go down. Marijuana is carcinogenic and has been proven in some studies to be addictive but I don't believe it's any worse than cigarrettes or alcohol.

Additionally, marijuana has been proven to aid digestion for cancer patients and treat glaucoma. States like Colorado and California have approved it for medical use BUT people can still get arrested selling and distributing to those with prescriptions. This is yet another reason to move towards decriminalization.

I don't think other drugs should be legalized simply because you can't make the same sort of risk/benefit argument. Is anyone's lilfe going to be HELPED by the use of cocaine or heroin? If you could come up with any benefits wouldn't they be far outweighed by their potential damage? Certain drugs were outlawed because they are poisonous to your body.