How much info?

[33girl]

This Chi O thing got me thinking...

Now pardon me if this comes out jumbled, but how much do IFC, NPC and NPHC know about each other's rituals? I mean how can they know if it's hazing if they can't tell each other what the ritual entails (which obviously they can't)? Or is this something everyone decides on their own?

Yacch...I hope SOMEONE understands what I am trying to ask.

[ZChi4Life]

Originally posted by 33girl:
This Chi O thing got me thinking...

Now pardon me if this comes out jumbled, but how much do IFC, NPC and NPHC know about each other's rituals? I mean how can they know if it's hazing if they can't tell each other what the ritual entails (which obviously they can't)? Or is this something everyone decides on their own?

Yacch...I hope SOMEONE understands what I am trying to ask.

I think I understand what you're saying. Well I think what happens is that things just get out. People who have started pledging or whatever and then have de-plegded or dropped for some reason, tend to spill the beans about what happened to them. I mean look at that guy Fred....what's his last name? (Does anyone know who I'm talking about) Well, I think he got initiated and all, but then later decided it was against his religious/Christian beliefs. But instead of respecting the fraternity and what they do, he went around telling what happened to him while he was pledging (going through education...whatever you want to call it).
So I think that's how some people think they can say what is and what isn't hazing. Obviously, rituals and stuff aren't supposed to get out. But they do and thus peeps who know about it first-, second- or thirdhand will say, "oh that's hazing cuz I had a friend who dropped/depledged/whatever and they did this and that to him/her." Or they'll say, "Well I was pledging a fraternity/sorority and they did blah blah blah to us... so I decided to de-plegde/drop cuz that was hazing...yadda yadda yadda." I think that's what happens to some effect. And I'm sure that these things can get exchanged amongst greeks in the IFC/NPC/NPHC. If greeks have friends that are in either councils or whatever....I'm sure people share stories or whatever. I'm sure there are other ways people find out stuff as well (i.e. boyfriends/girlfriends where either one or both are greek).
I hope that made sense and I hope that answered your question somewhat But that's how some people think they can say what's hazing or not. It's very upsetting when stuff like that happens. I wish one of my sisters would tell something about our ritual...talk about being PISSED!


[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited October 02, 2000).]

[Talisman]

I am a fraternity alum from up north and want to offer my support for the women in XO - whether the allegations are true or not.

My now wife is a SHSU alum and she had many friends pledging XO whom I knew. My observations of the XO pledge friends (who were pledges when I first met them) is this, they were doing normal pledge type activities. For example, they dressed up one particular day, they hung out together and had dinner together and bitched about their sisters.

When I pledged, our National changed the name of "Hell Weekend" to "Pinnacle Weekend" to symbolize the end of the journey and reaching the pinnacle, ie ultimate experience. I was rudely awakened during my Pinnacle Weekend when we assembled in the house basement surrounded by brothers and alumni. We were hazed - no doubt about it. It certainly was not the "ultimate experience". Our pledge class decided to ban together and due away with the hazing. 2 years later, most of the brothers who hazed our pledge class had either dropped out, graduated or been kicked out of the fraternity. A pledge bro was President and almost all of us held key officer positions. We did away with the hazing and incorporated new rituals (on the local level) to coincide with pledge education and our Fraternities FOUNDING PRINCIPALS.

My experience with greek organizations is this, almost every chapter was a local chapter at some point. Each chapter has their own local and national history. With these 2 histories comes local rituals and the national ritual.

2 years after graduating (I was President my senior year) I received a horrific phone call. A pledge had been injured during an initiation ritual. It seems as if an old alum visited the chapter and retaught the older local rituals. Due to this incident, I feel like I failed to instill in the brotherhood I served the founding principals and what true brotherhood is. We (my pledge bros and the 3 classes after us) immediately visited the chapter and we closed it down surrendering the charter to the university under a different guise. I still make contact with the National office advising them not to recharter just yet... to allow more time to begin rebuilding with completely fresh minds and spirits.

So after all this long windedness, I personnally feel how the sisters of XO must feel in some degree and I know what lies ahead. But think of this, you will have an extra chapter or two to add to your chapter's history and the meaning of sisterhood will be further reinforced when/if the charter is regranted (I also believe the banning together during this crisis has created one of the strongest knit greek organizations on the SHSU campus too).

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"Causa Latet Vis Est Notissima"

[This message has been edited by Talisman (edited October 06, 2000).]

[OWL PAL]

Thank you Talisman for your words of wisdom. [comment removed]

[This message has been edited by Artimis (edited October 11, 2000).]

[lifesaver]

I have seen my fraternity's ritual exemplification performed nearly 30 times now. I have honestly never seen any hazing occur. I am not just saying that to cover my chapter's butt. I have seen it done by 6 different chapters and our international ritual team at our inter/national leadership seminar. I don't know about anyone elses ritual, but I don't understand how someone could get injured at ritual. It's a ceremony. A moving one, but a ceremony. We actually perform ours in a local presbyterian church. I will say that there are always going to be variances bewtween the way headquarters wants it done, and how some chapters perform it, but I still don't understand how hazing could be brought into the(our)ceremony itself. It wouldn't fit. You're there, learning secret mottos, handshakes and the like and all the sudden you get beat down? How's that work?

I was elected ritualist a year after I joined my chapter. The only change I made was to eliminate the use of alcohol immediately after the ceremony. I just didn't think it fit with the christian teachings of the ritual. (you don't booze it up in a church.) and the guys need to reflect on what they just experienced (active brothers, as well as new members).

I think what Talisman was speaking to was the pre-rit ceremonies. If a chapter was going to take liberties, it would be the local-ritual, or the few days leading up to the ritual itself. Although not all chapters were once local orgs, as is the case with our house (we were a picked deligation - colonized by headquarters). We do have local traditions that are very set. I think it is up to all of us to maintain a proactive role in the elimination of hazing from all aspects of Greek Life.

[SAEalumnus]

I agree with lifesaver on this one. I've seen my fraternity's ritual performed several times including at our national leadership school and local leadership schools. Each time it's the same ceremony and there isn't anywhere you could haze someone during it. It just wouldn't work.

ZChi4Life was referring to Fred Hatchett, a self-proclaimed Christian minister who was once a member of both the Masons and Omega Psi Phi Fraternity. He's posted under several different user names on at least four different messages boards that I've seen basically saying everytime that most fraternities and sororities worship idols and are doomed to spend eternity in hell because of it. He supports his claims with "testimonies" and "divine revelations" but has very little, if any, factual evidence aside from his own personal experiences. Don't pay any attention to him.