question about black balling

Optimist Prime · #1 10-29-2002, 02:01 PM

I'm curious about how black balling would work on a campous where freshman/pledges live in the house. I know this is common in the midwest. What happens if someone gets blackballed? Do they have to leave the house or what?

Betarulz! · #2 10-29-2002, 02:11 PM

We don't necessarily "blackball" but in the event of the pledge period being terminated by the chapter, yes the pledge would have to move out. It takes a 2/3 majority of a 2/3 quorum to pass such a motion.

However, in my own experience the cases in which depledging is considered has had more to do with the pledge not being around...missing meetings, failing song and lore tests, and just not dedicating themselves to earning the right to wear the badge by striving to meet the requirements set out for initiation. In cases where initiation has been heald off, (both guys were living in), it has not been a question of meeting requirements, but rather IMHO lackluster reasons of disrespect to actives/pledge brothers (I didn't see it), or just the guy being a pile and people thinking that he needed to be more active in order to be considered a Beta (he is a pile, but he did fulfill his requirements like the rest of us...) In those cases which happened simultaneously they were not initated until mid way through the semester, and they continued to live in.

josh8o · #3 10-29-2002, 02:21 PM

in phi psi we do black ball...its a sad fact, but sometimes a pledge does not work out. anyway, our policy is not to allow pledges to move into the house. the only time a pledge would be allowed to move in is if it was towards the end of a pledge semester, and it was voted on by the governing board.

MsVixen · #4 10-29-2002, 11:21 PM

at my dad's house the way things worked was 1 black marble and you are done at the house.. this happened to my uncle (dad's bro) when he was a frosh (and living in the house) but my dad stood up for him and it was cool..

AXJules · #5 10-30-2002, 03:54 AM

A fraternity here recently blackballed a junior member in their house.
He kind of 'squeaked through' the whole pledge process, and since he was a freshman he's been telling horrible outlandish lies to anyone that will listen. i.e. he's president of his house, he went to XYZ house where 8 girls gave him oral sex, etc.....
Finally at the beginning of this year the guys were like, enough's enough and they voted at chapter. Not sure what the requirements were but the vote was unanimous.

AXJules · #6 10-30-2002, 03:55 AM

Oh yeah one thing I forgot to add-
he has lived in the house since he was a pledge.... the president informed him of the decision and told him he had until the end of the week to be out of the house.

aephi alum · #7 10-30-2002, 09:49 AM

The fraternities at my school used to require all members, including freshmen/pledges, to live in their houses. If a freshman depledged, whether by his choice or the fraternity's, he had to move out, but the school would find him a spot in the dorms. Beyond freshman year, if you depledged/deaffiliated you would have to leave the house, but there were no guarantees about getting a spot in the dorm system.

Kevin · #8 10-30-2002, 10:13 AM

We actually have a clause in the house contract which EVERY member signs that states that if a member's membership is terminated they will have to move out.

Our blackballing process is pretty tough. If ONE member casts an adverse vote, the candidate fails the election. Now on the other hand he can be proposed as many times as the rest of the members see fit so maybe it would take an extra semester or we could essentially be telling him that since he didn't show up to anything or act like he cared we'll give him a second chance if he wants it.

Optimist Prime · #9 10-30-2002, 09:43 PM

Thats cool Beta.. Damn, Snake, thats hardcore.

Betarulz! · #10 10-30-2002, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
We actually have a clause in the house contract which EVERY member signs that states that if a member's membership is terminated they will have to move out.

Our blackballing process is pretty tough. If ONE member casts an adverse vote, the candidate fails the election. Now on the other hand he can be proposed as many times as the rest of the members see fit so maybe it would take an extra semester or we could essentially be telling him that since he didn't show up to anything or act like he cared we'll give him a second chance if he wants it.

That is way tough...Theoretically, couldn't one member sabotage the whole pledge class? Or even one member for each potential?

I just mean that there are guys in my house that I don't like, and so to have just one person say no...that seems fairly easy. Do you guys have guidelines as to what an appropriate reason to vote against is, or is just not liking someone reason enough to drop a black marble? (For us, failure to get 85% of the members will prevent a pledge from initiating)

KSig RC · #11 10-30-2002, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Betarulz!
That is way tough...Theoretically, couldn't one member sabotage the whole pledge class? Or even one member for each potential?

Theoretically, yes - that is most likely why your chapter doesn't use this process.

Quote:

Originally posted by Betarulz!
I just mean that there are guys in my house that I don't like, and so to have just one person say no...that seems fairly easy. Do you guys have guidelines as to what an appropriate reason to vote against is, or is just not liking someone reason enough to drop a black marble? (For us, failure to get 85% of the members will prevent a pledge from initiating)

The guidelines are, most likely, simply to vote as you see fit. All decisions are to be made with the good of the order in mind, and you are forced to trust all of your brothers to make the right decision.

Kevlar281 · #12 10-31-2002, 02:02 PM

I seriously wonder how often a pledge only gets one black ball. I guess it all depends on your voting mechanism but if I know he’s got one black ball already I will ball him just because I trust my brother.

Kevin · #13 10-31-2002, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Betarulz!

That is way tough...Theoretically, couldn't one member sabotage the whole pledge class? Or even one member for each potential?

I just mean that there are guys in my house that I don't like, and so to have just one person say no...that seems fairly easy. Do you guys have guidelines as to what an appropriate reason to vote against is, or is just not liking someone reason enough to drop a black marble? (For us, failure to get 85% of the members will prevent a pledge from initiating)

One member could theoretically sabotage it... BUT we can propose a candidate for election as many times as it needs to be done. So we'll sort through it. There are definitely ways of dealing with this kind of thing within the rules. It's not so simple as I describe it but that's all it's ever come to in my chapter. No one has had to go outside the normal process.

The point is not whether or not you like the candidate but that you think he'll be good for the house. It's supposed to be a selfless decision. I'd drop the ball on my little if I knew he wouldn't do anything after he was initiated..

There are no guidelines or anything. It's a big trust issue basically.. And the benefit is that when a man is elected to be initiated he knows he has the entire house behind him. With this process will we ever be the biggest house on campus? Maybe not... but maybe that's not what's important.

hoosier · #14 10-31-2002, 08:45 PM

In a chapter I used to advise, two brothers from the same home town repeatedly blackballed pledges, usually saying " I never got to know him" or "he didn't show me anything."

The two brothers really weren't very sharp themselves. I think they used their votes to try to improve their status, and to get more attention from the pledges.

The chapter probably lost 10 pledges over a two-year period, via blackballs cast by these two guys.

It was becoming a problem, since some well-liked pledges were kicked out. Eventually some of the other brothers sat down with the two, and told them that if they caused the chapter to lose any more good pledges, the two could be voted "inactive" (non-voting) status.

this ended the problem, but we missed out on some good men.

OnePlus69Is70 · #15 10-31-2002, 08:51 PM

UMass doesn't allow pledges to move into the house- they move in the semester after, so there's never been an issue of someone moving. We require a unanimous vote to remove a pledge (or a brother, for that matter), and it follows a full hearing and such. We've only used it once, and we actually ended up allowing him to repledge the next semester (he had been having some emotional problems, and ended up going to a shrink for a while.)