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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.

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  #1  
Old 10-05-2002, 04:02 PM
MzFlirtyGirlie MzFlirtyGirlie is offline
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Thumbs down pledge pins? letters?

I think sorority had to take this hazing thing so far that it becomes ridiculous and it makes me concerned. We haven't really done anything to harm anyone and yet we had to tighten up are hazing rules because people are "supposedly watching us." New members aren't "obligated" to wear a pledge pin nor can we tell them so because it's considered "hazing now." I feel a pledge pin is what shows others that you are part of something and you should be proud of wearing it. It's even gotten so far that even not allowing them to wear our letters is considered hazing. To me wearing letters without knowing the meaning behind it is wrong. 1st it was we couldn't tell our lil' sisters' to do anything during big sis/lil sis week (bake brownies, make posters, etc) at all, now this. I feel a concern because we can't tell them that they can't wear our letters, we can't tell them that they have to wear a pledge pin. I feel like this hazing issue has gotten to far to the point where we are just any club or organization. These things are what makes us, us. Any comments or advice anyone???
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2002, 05:52 PM
AGDZO Susan AGDZO Susan is offline
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" New members aren't "obligated" to wear a pledge pin nor can we tell them so because it's considered "hazing now." I feel a pledge pin is what shows others that you are part of something and you should be proud of wearing it.
If your new members are proud of your organization, they'll want to wear their pledge pin. There's nothing wrong is letting them know that they can wear their pin whenever they like and that the members were their pin/badge on certain days and at certain occassions and why. If your new members aren't ever wearing their pledge pin then you have to ask yourself why - are they embarassed or not proud of the organization that they're in the process of joining? Then again, maybe they're taking the lead from the members - how often do your sisters wear their pin/badge?

Quote:
It's even gotten so far that even not allowing them to wear our letters is considered hazing. To me wearing letters without knowing the meaning behind it is wrong.
Letters can be bought anywhere by anyone - what's the big deal in the new members wearing them? I'm sure your organization has shirts/sweatshirts that say "XYZ Mom", "XYZ Dad", or baby clothes that say "My mom's a/an XYZ". Don't discourage your new members in showing their excitement and pride in joining your group by not letting them wear your letters! If anything, it's a great public relations tool for your chapter - the more the campus sees people wearing your letters, the more they'll know exactly how big your group is, how involved they are in other organizations (gee, look at all the XYZ's that are on the newspaper staff/band/althetic team/etc.), and how proud your members are your chapter since they're wearing the letters!

I'm sure during your initiation service is when you impart to them what the meaning behind your greek letters and any other symbols, etc that your chapter has. Only after being initiated is when these young ladies can wear your organization's pin/badge and I'm sure there is only one place from which you can order that pin/badge and it takes a special form! Having that pin/badge is what makes an XYZ an XYZ and nothing else - not even fabric letters on a shirt!!!

Quote:
I feel like this hazing issue has gotten to far to the point where we are just any club or organization. These things are what makes us, us.
What makes your chapter your chapter is what you believe in as an organization and how you live your life by your actions, not if you wear letters or bake cookies for your big sis. Shouldn't your new members be learning from your members what your group's creed/motto/whatever is and how one supports it by their daily actions? Isn't it learning how to be a contributing member to your chapter's success is what counts (being a committee member, officer, etc)? Isn't it learning the importance of paying dues and house bills on time and what happens to the chapter's overall financial stability is what counts? Isn't it treating each other, whether you're a member or a new member, with respect and love what counts?

Your chapter has invited these new members to join your sisterhood - what are the members doing to bring them into your group and making them feel a part of it? Are your big sis' taking the time to study with their little sis' (I'm sure your chapter has grade requirements)? Are your big sis' helping their little sis' meet more of your chapter members by going out for ice cream, watch tv together, shopping, etc? Do you have your new members on your chapter committees so they can start learning more about your chapter's philanthropic endeavours, planning social events, etc? All of those things are what makes your chapter unique and is what your new members should be learning and experiencing so that when they take their vows at Initiation, they will be ready to learn all those secret special things that makes an XYZ truly an XYZ!!!
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  #3  
Old 10-05-2002, 06:16 PM
Eupolis Eupolis is offline
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The impression I get is that the backlash that you see about pledge pins arose because some groups had pin requirements that really were pretty absurd.

For example, there are plenty of stories out there about groups that required pledges to wear their pins at all times -- including to bed. There were stories of members showing up at random but unlikely times, including the middle of the night, to make sure that the pledges were wearing their pins. Although that is a mild form of hazing, I think that it does amount to hazing.

I don't know if my fraternity ever had that kind of practice; in any event, it was firmly abolished well before I got there. We wore our pins because we were proud to be part of the organization, but if someone happened not to be wearing his, there were no negative repercussions. (If someone never wore it, the brothers had a tendency to wonder how he felt about his associate membership, though.)

So, some groups had stupid, unreasonable requirements that put their pledges/associates on edge about receiving some form of disciplinary action or harassment should they be caught not conforming with those unreasonable requirements, coupled with the feeling that they were being constantly watched. We should know by now that when that sort of thing happens, the result will be a harshly opposing rule that excludes a lot of reasonable activities as well as the unreasonable ones. I don't think that's a good thing, but that seems to be the way these matters work. I'm just saying this to add historical context.
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  #4  
Old 10-05-2002, 06:39 PM
KappaTarzan KappaTarzan is offline
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it kinda blows my mind how everything is hazing now.. honestly if you are proud to be pledged to an org, youshould be proud to wear that pin!! we do still require our pledges to wear the pins... i don't think it's hazing at all.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2002, 08:26 PM
Eupolis Eupolis is offline
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I don't think it's hazing to require pledges to wear pins, but I think the requirement must be reasonable. That would exclude requiring them to wear the pins 24 hours a day without exception. I think having pledges wear pins on their pajamas (or whatever else they may sleep in) is unconscionably stupid. Besides, that sort of requirement degrades the pin, which should be treated with respect and worn on clothes that are at least street clothes. Anyway, it's that sort of inane requirement that results in overbroad rules as a response.
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2002, 05:46 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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I think Eupolis is right. It goes from one extreme to another. There were groups who had ridiculous requirements (I know when my APO chapter was in its early days, if you had pierced ears, you had to wear your pin in the shower) and rightly so, those were eliminated. But now it's gone to "here's your pin....if you want to wear it you can...but you really don't have to...it's OK if you don't...whatever you want is fine..." Bleah. I feel like we're subconciously saying "treat this org and the members however you want, it's okelly dokelly doo."

Requiring pins during weekday daylight hours, I see nothing wrong with at all. Oh, and I should add, we didn't have to wear "pin attire" with our pledge pins. This might be the reason NM's are not wearing them - who wants to dress up every day for six weeks? There are many schools where the sisters only wear their pins for rituals simply because the climate/topography does not lend itself to dresses, dress pants and shoes. It doesn't mean they are less loyal, just that they are sensible.

Edited to add re the letter thing, we could wear letters from the first moment of pledging, but both my orgs had open mottoes that were spelled out by the letters and on our crests for the world to see, if they read Greek. If your letters are different from your motto - say, if Pi Beta Phi really doesn't stand for Perennially Being Friends - or your motto denoted by the letters is secret, I can understand the prohibition on wearing them before initiation.
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Last edited by 33girl; 10-07-2002 at 11:49 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2002, 11:35 AM
aephi alum aephi alum is offline
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I agree that requiring new members to wear their pins 24/7 is a form of hazing (pledges had to wear their pins in the *shower* 33girl? Can I just say, ow?!). But I don't see the problem with asking your new members to wear their pins most of the time when they're out at classes, participating in activities (with obvious exceptions like sports practice), etc. As Susan and Eupolis pointed out, it shows your pride in your org.

When I was pledging my local, we had pledge rings that we were required to wear at all times except when asleep, in the shower, or in a situation where it would be dangerous to wear a ring. Sisters were forbidden to wear their pledge rings during the pledge period of a subsequent pledge class. After initiation you could wear your ring whenever you so chose.

When I was pledging AEPhi, we were "strongly encouraged" to wear our pins at all times. We weren't required to go all out and wear pin attire, but we were required to be neat, clean, and presentable when wearing our pins (e.g. no ripped jeans). If you didn't wear your pin, there were a few raised eyebrows but no negative repercussions. Most other sororities at my school did the same.

As for forbidding new members to wear letters, I don't see the problem. My local did not forbid pledges to wear letters, but I was uncomfortable with the idea of wearing letters when I didn't know their meaning, so I chose not to wear letters until after initiation. AEPhi does forbid anyone except initiated sisters from wearing letters, for that very reason, but bid day and event shirts usually have the letters spelled out, so new members can wear them. I don't see where it's hazing to forbid new members to wear letters - after all, you don't let new members wear badges, do you?
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  #8  
Old 10-07-2002, 12:42 PM
sdidavide sdidavide is offline
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I have to laugh at this because my sorority was talking about this the other day. When it comes to the pledges we have to do things like "suggest" or "highly recommend" never can we make them do things, but then I go to chapter meetings and I hear things like-- You HAVE to wear letters on Wednesday or it is MADITORY that you do this...Luckly our pledges are great this semster and want to do everything. When we call them New Memebers they yell at us and want to be called pledges.
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  #9  
Old 10-07-2002, 06:47 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Lightbulb

It is a SAD DAY when the People that Pledge or Associate With do not want to wear the Pin to Show that These ar the people that I want to be with!

It is an Advertisment that they are with a Organization that they are Proud to try to belong to!

If they do not then then do they Pledge or Associate with anyway?

In Or Out, do or dont! Be Or Dont Be, that be the question!
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2002, 03:43 AM
NoShame_Gamma NoShame_Gamma is offline
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To wear a pin, or not to wear a pin...

I find it somewhat funny that people complain about having to wear pins. I say this because years ago (many of them) I pledged an organization (Ethnic GLO) and they required the pledges/new members to wear a wooden block with the greek letters written on it tied around our necks with a yellow shoelace! Not only that, intiation was a total hazing ritual Needless to say, the minute they handed me that block I gave it back and left.

Anyway, back to the pins... I don't think wearing them is a big deal, of course, within reason (ie: not in the shower, not to sleep, or any other harmful situation). My organization asks that its PA's/New Members wear their pin at all times (within reason), but it's not required because of hazinge regulations. Oh well, we haven't had anybody refuse to wear it. Actually, our current PA class was looking forward to receiving their pin and I am proud to say they wear it Proudly!
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2002, 05:33 PM
emb021 emb021 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eupolis
I don't think it's hazing to require pledges to wear pins, but I think the requirement must be reasonable. That would exclude requiring them to wear the pins 24 hours a day without exception. I think having pledges wear pins on their pajamas (or whatever else they may sleep in) is unconscionably stupid. Besides, that sort of requirement degrades the pin, which should be treated with respect and worn on clothes that are at least street clothes. Anyway, it's that sort of inane requirement that results in overbroad rules as a response.
In most APO chapters, we set reasonable excepts for wearing the pledge pin (ie no 24hr nonsense, excepts for sporting events, etc). For most chapters is usually expected that the pin be worn while out and about on campus and around town. To prevent abuse of the 'wearing the pledge pin' requirement (as well as fear on the part of pledges), most chapters clearly write out the exceptions. Stuff like it doesn't have to be worn from 10pm to 8am, during sporting events, in shower/locker rooms, etc.

PLUS, we make it clear why we want them to wear the pin: because we want them to get into the habit of wearing the pin they will wear as a Brother.

(and I tell our pledges that wearing the pin while off campus is a good way to meet other Brothers. One pledge met a Brother at a service project we had at a baseball game and thus got his signature).

Hope this helps.
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2002, 06:26 PM
sbhill2 sbhill2 is offline
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Im a pledge and I dont wear letters even though I can just because I dont know the full meaning behind them yet. Our pledge class has talked about this and we all feel the same way. As for pins, we aren't required to wear them at all but if we do, then they ask us to look nicer than everyday clothes. I dont think its hazing to not let them wear letters before intitiation - I think it helps them to value the meaning once they can wear them and fully understand what it means to wear those letters.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2002, 06:30 PM
sororitygirl2 sororitygirl2 is offline
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Only one sorority on my campus required new members to wear their pins all the time.

Many fraternities required that they wear them all the time. Some gave them exceptions (sleeping, sex, drinking, showering,etc...), others said that when they showered it had to be on their towel, when they slept it had to be on their boxers. I thought it was crazy.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2002, 06:50 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Sorry, But, I reiterate!

If You as an Individual are not PROUD To Wear your Nw Pin for What ever is is caled, then why in the Hell did you Associate With A Greek Oganization?

Get Off of Butts and work with them and the Chpter, No Matter how much they may pissey you off!

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  #15  
Old 10-18-2002, 12:22 AM
sunshine98 sunshine98 is offline
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Wink pledge pins

I am an alumni member of akpsi and KD and we were required to wear our pledge pins at all times. I didn't have a prob. with it.
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