Fraternity Probation @ UofArkansas

TaraHopeful · #1 10-13-2002, 05:12 PM

There is one lady police officer who is getting our fraternities here into as much trouble as she can. So far, the Kappa Sigs, Pikes and Sigma Chis have gotten busted and are on social probation, for having beer in their houses. They may even be kicked off campus if they get into any more trouble. They've never really gotten into trouble for this before but this woman is trying to bust everything up. Has anyone else had the same kind of thing happen to their greek system? Just wondering. I mean, i know underage drinking shouldn't be promoted by cops but the thing is that this woman walks through the house just looking for something to bust these guys with while they're having a party....

doubleblue&gold · #2 10-13-2002, 05:22 PM

If she's walking thru the houses in the first place, you have a problem. If no one is checking the door and keeping a private party private---you bet she has every right to do what she's doing. And if the houses have national policies about being dry AT the houses, it won't be long until your Headquarters pulls you off campus.
I realize the fraternities don't follow as strict policies as the sororities, but underage drinking is still against the law----and can make your insurance rates go sky-high.

josh8o · #3 10-13-2002, 05:24 PM

thats so fucked up...she should not be able to just walk into the fraternity houses. there has got to be something they can do. if not, then they just need to be more careful and have people on watch for her. i cant believe that she just walks into a house unannounced.

MFC2002 · #4 10-13-2002, 05:24 PM

I don't really think you should make assumptions based on the gender of the police officer involved.

If they had alcohol in thier house and it was in violation of campus rules then maybe should be angry at the chapters involved for failing to live up to their responsibilities and putting the system in jeopardy.

Optimist Prime · #5 10-13-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MFC2002
I don't really think you should make assumptions based on the gender of the police officer involved.

No one did that simply she was she.

33girl · #6 10-13-2002, 07:30 PM

I don't think anyone is saying she is doing this BECAUSE she is female - although it is doubly intrusive having an officer of the opposite sex just randomly walk through your house.

None of the groups named, as far as I know, have dry housing policies.

Officers are not allowed to show up with no warrant, etc- especially if the houses are on-campus and she is a town police officer. Not only is she violating the privacy of the houses, she is intruding on the domain of the school's police department.

TaraHopeful · #7 10-13-2002, 09:32 PM

I'm a female, so of course i was not blaming any of this on her gender. All of the Fraternity parties have to be registered so there are always cops there, but they never go in and look for something to bust these guys for. This one woman just feels the need to get everybody in trouble. The other cops just stand outside the house and make sure nobody is too drunk or getting in fights or doing anything destructive....just watching over everyone. They know that the "punch" isn't Kool-aid and they dont say anything about that ever, but if this woman find a keg.....it's all over. Just clearing up the facts.

docetboy · #8 10-14-2002, 12:00 AM

This is odd. At our Campus (Washburn University, Topeka) the cops are not allowed to go into the houses. They can walk around the yard all they want, but the inside is off limits without permission (and we are on campus). I'm wondering how the lady cop got in all the houses. Of course, UofA may be different.

Secondly, this is dissapointing. UofA is home of Kappa Sigma's Fabulous Xi chapter - the largest Kappa Sig Chapter House. Be a shame if something happens to 'em.

madmax · #9 10-15-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by doubleblue&gold
If she's walking thru the houses in the first place, you have a problem. If no one is checking the door and keeping a private party private---you bet she has every right to do what she's doing. And if the houses have national policies about being dry AT the houses, it won't be long until your Headquarters pulls you off campus.

Actually she probably doesn't have the right to search the houses. If the homes are on private property the police need one of the following to perfrom a search :
1. search warrant
2. permission from occupant
3. reasonable cause.

Eupolis · #10 10-15-2002, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by madmax

Actually she probably doesn't have the right to search the houses. If the homes are on private property the police need one of the following to perfrom a search :
1. search warrant
2. permission from occupant
3. reasonable cause.

The rule is that a search warrant and probable cause are required for a search to be valid. Consent is one of several exceptions to the warrant requirement.

The rule might be different if part of the house is being held open to the public -- like if no one is guarding the door. The Fourth Amendment warrant requirement applies when the person to be searched has a reasonable expectation of privacy from search. There is arguably a reduced expectation of privacy when you hold the house open to the public. I don't know enough about criminal procedure and the Fourth Amendment to know if that's enough to make the evidence legitimate -- I kinda doubt it, but that's just a hunch.

If they're not watching the door, they're bound to have all sorts of problems.

If they are watching the door, they should tell the officer she can come back with a warrant. A fraternity member guarding the door who gives consent for the officer to enter probably gives her access to all common areas in the house that are open for the party. It will also give her access to anything that is in her "plain view" as she walks through the house, even if those things are over the threshold of open doors into private rooms.

Door guards ought to be outside or right at the threshold of the door, not several feet inside.

Even if the evidence is ill-gotten, an illegal search might only protect the fraternity from criminal sanction (and then only if a lawyer can successfully get the evidence excluded from the criminal case). It might not work so well to protect it from campus probation, and it won't work at all to protect it from discipline from its headquarters.

We're not in any areas I've carefully studied here, so maybe someone else could correct me on anything I've gotten wrong. They only teach basics on bar exam preparation courses, not the little nuances that apply to specific weird situations.

UF_PikePC98 · #11 10-16-2002, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TaraHopeful
Has anyone else had the same kind of thing happen to their greek system?

Back in 1998 and 1999 at the Univ. of Florida we had the same type of problems. It started off with unregistered parties getting busted. Then it went into hazing scandals. Then it went as far as video tapes of guys having sex with strippers coming to surface. Then there was GHB deaths as well as rape accusations. Underage drinking was included but was the least of fraternity worries.

Eventually 6 frats were expelled from campus, mine included. 1 was merely put on probation. All the frats recieved 2 years suspension. One frat came off of suspension and foolishly threw a "Get Wet" rush party ( bikkini contest) at a club and got nailed again. This time they recieved 3 yrs suspension.

Tom Earp · #12 10-16-2002, 09:25 PM

docetboy, welcome to GC from a Gorilla of PSU!

You will find the greatest of the best on this Site!

Do you know Dean Hagan? He is my Skoal Gope Rep and a KS DGM for a small while longer. He is U Witchita Grad!

Police just walking in is not legal with out a warrent, BUT, if they happen to see something or is loud music, or any reason that a law is being broken, they can investigate. That means they come in!

It is a very fine line and while a Org. may not get in trouble leagally, it can come up to the Schoola and to you International.

There are several Lawyers on Site that could be of more help, Just AskQ

docetboy · #13 10-17-2002, 11:55 PM

Hey Tom, nice to see a fellow Kansan. Good job on the whoopin' you gave us in football about a month ago, and best of luck for the season. What are you? 3rd in the NIAA?

Sorry, I don't know Dean Hagen...I'm a freshman from Omaha and still learning (but one thing I've learned: KAPPA SIGMA is the best!)