ADHD and Brain Sizes

[CrimsonTide4]

As an educator, I hear ADHD more than I hear the word homework on some days. I don't know about the rest of the GC educators, but I really think that there is an overabundance of ADHD these days in our children. In other words, I don't think every child is ADHD and they just stick that label on a child to make his or her inattention and hyperactive azzzzzzzes have a place in the society. We need to stop medicating and offer more viable solutions for these children to function better in the classroom and other situations where paying attention and sitting still for long periods of time is critical. Don't misunderstand me -- there are children out there who REALLY are ADHD, but I think some parents and teachers see a kid misbehave in any number of ways, and immediately say "He/She must be ADHD. Let's get him or her tested." When what really needs to happen is said child needs to learn there is appropriate behavior for kids in various situations.



Children with ADHD Have Smaller Brains
Tue Oct 8,11:51 PM ET
By Ed Edelson
HealthScoutNews Reporter

TUESDAY, Oct. 8 (HealthScoutNews) -- Children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) have brains that are measurably smaller than those of unaffected children.

Researchers say, however, the findings from a new study are not as downbeat as might be supposed.

That study, which tracked children for 10 years, takes the onus off the stimulant drugs used to treat the disorder, since it found the same size difference in ADHD children who were not given the medications. It also absolves parents of the blame fixed on them by some authorities, says Dr. Judith Rapoport, chief of the National Institute of Mental Health child psychiatry branch and lead author of a report appearing in tomorrow's Journal of the American Medical Association (news - web sites).

"There has been a lot of talk assuming this might be the parents' fault," says Rapoport. "Parents used to get a bum rap because they supposedly were not disciplining the children properly. This study supports a whole bunch of evidence suggesting that the condition is strongly biologically determined."

ADHD affects an estimated 3 percent to 5 percent of school-aged children, causing them to be overactive, impulsive and easily distracted. It is two to three times more common in boys than girls.

Starting in 1991, the researchers used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to look at the brains of 89 boys and 63 girls diagnosed with ADHD, comparing them with 139 young people without the condition. The images show the brain size of ADHD patients were 3 percent to 4 percent smaller than those of the unaffected group, a difference that persisted as the children grew older.

"There seems to be a general factor that has to do with growth of the brain, a fixed problem that happens early, possibly at birth," Rapoport says.

The finding of smaller brain size is not necessarily bad news for ADHD children, she adds, since about half the people diagnosed with the condition early in life eventually outgrow it.

And smaller brain size does not necessarily mean lower intelligence, says Carl M. Anderson, a development psychobiologist at McLean Hospital in Boston who is doing research along the same lines.


"Just because you have a smaller brain doesn't make you different in any way," says Anderson, who adds that a colleague, "a well-respected neurobiologist," was amused to learn he had a very small brain. "I don't think you can say categorically that these children are damaged for life," he says.

"The brain is amazingly adaptive," Anderson explains. "What this study says is that there is some factor, genetic probably, that makes the brains of these children smaller, probably in a complex interaction with dietary factors. Just having a smaller brain doesn't say anything about your intelligence."

Anderson praises the study as "unique in a number of regards. The first is that it is the largest study of brain size done across any disorder you can imagine."

Rapoport adds it is "the first study large enough to be believable."

The institute is doing a follow-up study, Rapoport says: "We are looking to see whether these abnormalities predict an outcome eight years later."

What To Do

More information about ADHD is available from the National Institute of Mental Health (http://health.nih.gov/result.asp?disease_id=61)or the Center for Children and Youth with Disabilities(http://www.nichcy.org/pubs/factshe/fs19txt.htm).

[oneinamillion]

I to believe that educators or those who study children behaviors are rather quick to paste ADHD onto children. I remember as a child I was very bored in the classroom..my mind would wonder and imagine all over the place while the teacher would be instructing; along with other things (passing notes, trying to find an excuse to walk the halls, etc). Don't get me wrong I was just bored with school but was never a bad/disrespectful child. I was reprimanded by my parents for not paying attention instead of being bad. But anyway I'm saying that to say if that was now I would be labeled as a "ADHD" type kid. But in actuality I wasn't.............................. I just needed to get my little butt somewhere and stay still. I tell you once my parents spanked me I would be still in class and tough that boredom out!!!
CrimsonTide I understand what you're going through with the classroom my father was a teacher and I tell you those kids would have him cussing under his breath.

[Lizanabavi]

Far too often it is racism: I can not tell you how many of my students have been labeled ADHD and they were'nt. When I first began teaching, I taught at a predominately white school and was given the "problem" children who were deemed deficit.

All with the exception of one were black, I reviewed their files and it made me sick what they contained. After a certain period my students grades; test scores; and, behavior improved. My co-workers were "amazed" at how well those "problem" students behaved. Whatever.

Do some of these children need to be spanked?Yes. But, does not mean you have slap a label on them because you don't feel like being bothered with them? NO!

Bottom line is that more blacks need to teach. People can not fathom how it difficult it is for a child in a classrom when they have a teacher with those views; their racism is exhibited with the labels.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by Lizanabavi
Far too often it is racism: I can not tell you how many of my students have been labeled ADHD and they were'nt. When I first began teaching, I taught at a predominately white school and was given the "problem" children who were deemed deficit.

All with the exception of one were black, I reviewed their files and it made me sick what they contained. After a certain period my students grades; test scores; and, behavior improved. My co-workers were "amazed" at how well those "problem" students behaved. Whatever.

I'm pretty surprised about that. The school I attended from 4th to 8th grade dispenced ritalin and dexedrine left and right, 95% of those were white males. The black kids were just labelled as stupid or bad. The white kids were labelled as ADD/ADHD.

Anyways, I have serious issues with this label. The condition definately exists, however it is being overdiagnosed. While I think discipline does play a part in reducing this problem, I think the solution lies in the educational system. The demographic that is most likely to be diagnosed is school age boys. The primary schooling system is not accommidating for young boys, even for a few girls. I used to be a psych major and done a few researhes on this condition for class, I stumbled on a statistic that 20% of 5th grade boys are diagnosed. Bottom line, normal boy behavior is being pathologicalized.

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by Dionysus


Anyways, I have serious issues with this label. The condition definately exists, however it is being overdiagnosed. While I think discipline does play a part in reducing this problem, I think the solution lies in the educational system. The demographic that is most likely to be diagnosed is school age boys. The primary schooling system is not accommidating for young boys, even for a few girls. I used to be a psych major and done a few researhes on this condition for class, I stumbled on a statistic that 20% of 5th grade boys are diagnosed. Bottom line, normal boy behavior is being pathologicalized.

BINGO!!!

Boys are overdiagnosed with this condition. The other day I had to complete a profile for one of my 9th graders to see if he fit ADHD and I had to honestly say: NO!! He is gifted and talkative but not overly disruptive.

Bottom line, boys cannot sit for hours at a time.

[Lizanabavi]

Originally posted by Dionysus


I'm pretty surprised about that. The school I attended from 4th to 8th grade dispenced ritalin and dexedrine left and right, 95% of those were white males. The black kids were just labelled as stupid or bad. The white kids were labelled as ADD/ADHD.

Anyways, I have serious issues with this label. The condition definately exists, however it is being overdiagnosed. While I think discipline does play a part in reducing this problem, I think the solution lies in the educational system. The demographic that is most likely to be diagnosed is school age boys. The primary schooling system is not accommidating for young boys, even for a few girls. I used to be a psych major and done a few researhes on this condition for class, I stumbled on a statistic that 20% of 5th grade boys are diagnosed. Bottom line, normal boy behavior is being pathologicalized.

The condition definately exists, however it is being overdiagnosed.

I agree.

While I think discipline does play a part in reducing this problem, I think the solution lies in the educational system.

How? Would you please expound more on that? Thanks.

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by Lizanabavi
Far too often it is racism: I can not tell you how many of my students have been labeled ADHD and they were'nt. When I first began teaching, I taught at a predominately white school and was given the "problem" children who were deemed deficit.

All with the exception of one were black, I reviewed their files and it made me sick what they contained. After a certain period my students grades; test scores; and, behavior improved. My co-workers were "amazed" at how well those "problem" students behaved. Whatever.

i'm pretty surprised about that too! i teach in a predominately black school. about 2/3 of my class is black, 4 kids are white and the rest hispanic.

i have 3 kids (that i know of) on medication and all of them are white! 2 girls and one boy. i do have one black boy and a hispanic girl who SHOULD be on medication, but that is another story!

i find that most of the behavior problems come from my children with broken homes. one boy's (black) father doused the house with gasoline and tried to set the family on fire. another boy's (black) mother and brother are in a mental institution. another girl's (white) father hung himself last year.

with ADHD, we as teachers are FORBIDDEN to recommend medication or testing to a parent. is this the same way in other places too? i am curious to know if it is just a NY thing. we would have to say something to the school psychologist who then has to make an observation and then talk to the parents. i have seen some of my ADHD students off meds and let me tell you, it is a nightmare. i feel for the teachers who had them before they were medicated.

i am interested to hear what the rest of you GC teachers have to say and if your situation is similar to mine. i really wouldn't label it racism. maybe in your school it is. that's definitely ignorance. honestly, too, the medication is expensive. many of these families whose kids DO need medication can't afford it and therefore make it seem like nothing is wrong with their children. then they wonder why their children don't learn or are always in trouble.

[tammy-]

Originally posted by Lizanabavi
Bottom line is that more blacks need to teach. People can not fathom how it difficult it is for a child in a classrom when they have a teacher with those views; their racism is exhibited with the labels.

More black teacher teaching our black children! That is exactly what we need and we need it now!

[Lizanabavi]

Originally posted by cash78mere


i'm pretty surprised about that too! i teach in a predominately black school. about 2/3 of my class is black, 4 kids are white and the rest hispanic.

i have 3 kids (that i know of) on medication and all of them are white! 2 girls and one boy. i do have one black boy and a hispanic girl who SHOULD be on medication, but that is another story!

i find that most of the behavior problems come from my children with broken homes. one boy's (black) father doused the house with gasoline and tried to set the family on fire. another boy's (black) mother and brother are in a mental institution. another girl's (white) father hung himself last year.

with ADHD, we as teachers are FORBIDDEN to recommend medication or testing to a parent. is this the same way in other places too? i am curious to know if it is just a NY thing. we would have to say something to the school psychologist who then has to make an observation and then talk to the parents. i have seen some of my ADHD students off meds and let me tell you, it is a nightmare. i feel for the teachers who had them before they were medicated.

i am interested to hear what the rest of you GC teachers have to say and if your situation is similar to mine. i really wouldn't label it racism. maybe in your school it is. that's definitely ignorance. honestly, too, the medication is expensive. many of these families whose kids DO need medication can't afford it and therefore make it seem like nothing is wrong with their children. then they wonder why their children don't learn or are always in trouble.

with ADHD, we as teachers are FORBIDDEN to recommend medication or testing to a parent. is this the same way in other places too?

Yes!!! Until I got more in-depth training in counseling there were still certain aspects of ADHD that were vague: Even after taking Behavior Management. Unless a person has been trained at a Master's level in School Psychology; Mental Health Counseling; or, School Counseling then ethically a classroom teacher can not diagnose. If you do, then you and your school district run the risk of being sued. Your teaching license/certificate will then be revoked and you would NEVER be able to teach again.

[CrimsonTide4]

In case you all are talking about me, I DID NOT DIAGNOSE the boy. I was asked by his parent and doctor to complete an assessment that would help the doctor diagnose the young man as being ADHD or not. I, however, do not see him as being a person who meets ADHD profile and put that at the bottom of my form.

[cash78mere]

crimsontide4-

no, i wasn't referring to you. it was just a general statement about a problem that we, as teachers, face. i didn't even realize i may have been making a connection to what you said!

[Lizanabavi]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
In case you all are talking about me, I DID NOT DIAGNOSE the boy. I was asked by his parent and doctor to complete an assessment that would help the doctor diagnose the young man as being ADHD or not. I, however, do not see him as being a person who meets ADHD profile and put that at the bottom of my form.

Nooooooooo!!! Let me clarify, I was'nt talking about you and your situation. I was responding to Cash78mere's post. I apologize if you felt that way.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by cash78mere

with ADHD, we as teachers are FORBIDDEN to recommend medication or testing to a parent.

Not where I came from.

I had a teacher not only recommended testing, she recommended to the parents upping the doses of meds.