Question

LeslieAGD · #1 09-19-2002, 08:19 AM

Okay there's something I don't understand and I'm sure the intelligent people of GC can help me out. In some of the recruitment threads, I've noticed that the PNMs are required to cut houses before they get their invite lists back.
Why would anyone want to do this?!?

Doesn't it seem like that would lower the number of parties girls attend? Like if Patty PNM goes to 10 houses and decides to cut houses 7, 8, 9, and 10, but then only gets invited back by houses 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, and 10. Now instead of going to the total amount of parties, she's only going to 1, 2, and 3. What is the reasoning behind this?

KappaKittyCat · #2 09-19-2002, 08:31 AM

I have no idea why anybody would have them do that. I've only heard of one school that does that. I do know that many schools have the women rank their houses after each round and they use those rankings to regret parties only if that PNM has been invited to more parties than she can attend.

The other system doesn't make sense to me.

aopinthesky · #3 09-19-2002, 09:37 AM

I'd be interested to know that, too. There was some discussion on another thread about "prush" and "sorush", one way the rushees choose from the list of who invited them back (the way I am used to) and one way the rushees cut and the sororities cut and then you get matched up to what is left. Seems to me that the last way would mean a lot more PNM's getting dropped when they might reconsider a group they had cut if they had been cut heavily and had fewer choices.

Anna

xo_kathy · #4 09-19-2002, 09:39 AM

We did like KappaKittyCat said. We ranked after every round, then were matched through the computer with who invited us back. Let's say a PNM could get invited back to 3 and the PNM's order was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. She did NOT get invited back to 1 or 2, she would then go to 3, 4, 5. However, if she did not get invited to 1, 2, 4 or 5, well then the poor thing would only get to go back to 3, just one party. But that hardly ever happened.

I don't think it's a bad system. I think if you were a PNM and you saw that the "really cool" house invited you back, you might cut a "less cool" house, even if you really liked the "less cool" house, simply because of the status of it (especially after first rounds where a lot of houses only cut for grades so many girls get invited back). I think a PNM should put down which houses she wants to go back to in the order she really liked them. We always did this at my school and we had great returns and not many girls dropped out. Because people were putting down where they WANTED to go, not where everyone else was going.

aopinthesky · #5 09-19-2002, 09:49 AM

I am not sure that IS what KappaKitty said. Kappa and I are talking about the same thing - I think. The PNM's do not rank houses until pref. Until then, they go in and are shown the list of all the houses that have invited them back for the next round. They then choose from that list up to the number of houses they are allowed to visit. If they are allowed to visit 6 and 10 have invited them back, they pick their top 6. If only 5 have invited them back, then those are the 5 they go back to.
In your scenario, what happens if the PNM ranks her houses 1,2,3,4,5 and all five invite her back, but she can only go to 3? Is she bound to 1,2,3 because those are her top-ranked?

Anna

xo_kathy · #6 09-19-2002, 10:10 AM

Quote:

I do know that many schools have the women rank their houses after each round and they use those rankings to regret parties only if that PNM has been invited to more parties than she can attend.

I thought that what KappaKittyCat said was what I was describing - ranking after every round and then regretting ONLY if the PNM gets more parties than can be attended. She just didn't elaborate and say that if the PNM does NOT get invited back to all her top choices, what would happen after that. And I think I addressed that.

Yes, she would regret 4 and 5 because 1, 2, and 3 were her top choices and they all invited her back. What's the point in ranking if you are only going to change you're mind when you see who invited you back. Which is my "cool" house, "not cool" house scenario.

Let's say 4 and 5 were the "best" houses, but the PNM really felt she connected with the others better so she ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. But going home talking to the other PNMs who all thought 4 and 5 were the greatest, the next morning she goes to get her invite and OH, the "best" houses invited her back?! Well, screw it that I felt really comfortable at 2 and 3, they aren't as cool and I want everyone to think I'm cool 'cuz I'm in the "best" house, I'm not going back to 2 or 3 now. Of course, little does the PNM know that she only didn't get cut because she has a 4.0. Then that night she ranks 4, 5, 1. Well the next day she goes in and suddenly only has an invite to 1 because her gut instinct was right and she really didn't fit in with 4 and 5, and when they cut for something besides grades she didn't get invited back to them? Whereas, if she'd stuck it out with who she wanted in the first place, she'd probably be a happy little #2 on Bid Night.

Sounds a little tragic, but maybe that's why we are seeing so many girls on the site wind up bid less? Sorry for the long post!!!

aopinthesky · #7 09-19-2002, 10:17 AM

If you are given the chance to see who invited you back and choosing the houses to return to, you don't do any ranking until Pref. I am not trying to get into an argument about whether this is a better way, just pointing out the difference.

xo_kathy · #8 09-19-2002, 10:30 AM

I'm not arguing either! Don't worry!

I was just trying to explain the difference. A lot of people seem to think not seeing who invited you back is so bad, so I'm just trying to explain how it works and why I think it's good.

Also, I realize in your system that PNMs don't rank til pref. But I also think your heart is telling you to do one thing when you walk in to get your invites, but when you see the list of who invited you back, then the scenario I was using could come into play.

Either way, it's a crazy, exhausting system! Let's go check on those Wisconsin threads!!!

nutmeg · #9 09-20-2002, 05:02 AM

In the end doesnt it have to be a mutual agreement? I mean each way has its pros and cons. I have my issues with rush in general, because so many girls have their hearts set on being in a sorority (or guys a frat) and then they dont get into a house. But like I was told, we can't take everyone otherwise we would.

AchtungBaby80 · #10 09-20-2002, 09:28 AM

Nutmeg, I love your name!

doubleblue&gold · #11 09-20-2002, 10:05 AM

Well I think it's nuts to make PNM make decisions by ranking after the parties----especially after the first round when they are usually so short. That whole process lends itself to less women eventually receiving bids because they'll go to less parties and have less to pick from. And if you were in one of those houses wouldn't you like to have a second chance to meet her and let her see what you're all about?/ The argument that it keeps girls from seeing who cut them sounds nice.....but if you only get one or two nvites back, you'll know you got cut by someone anyway!

squirrely girl · #12 09-20-2002, 10:26 AM

BGSU uses the whole rank after every round system. In all honesty it does prevent the whole "best house, less best house" scenario.

Quote:

ranking after every round and then regretting ONLY if the PNM gets more parties than can be attended.

This really does work! fewer girls drop out, more houses end up getting quota, and everybody is pretty much happy.

in the "my rush" thread, browneyedgirl pointed out that after first rounds, she ranked the sororities in order of her favorites (1-14). when she got back her invite to second rounds list, she got 1-3 and 5-9. in the process that a couple of people have been describing, she DIDN'T REALLY CUT ANYBODY, she simply ordered them. when panhel sat down and looked at who invited HER back, they were able to see which houses she already said that she liked and accepted the invitations for her. nothing against browneyedgirl (cause she got EIGHT houses and in all honesty, 10-14 prolly invited her back too), but in BG's system, number 4 didn't invite her back, so she got the next house on her list. she still got the maximum of 8 houses, without cutting anybody, and everybody is happy!

pretend that Suzie Rusher ordered her houses 1,2,3,4, and 5, and for second rounds she could go back to 3 houses. well, number 2 and 3 cut her for grades, but everybody else invited her back. in the system that i'm describing, she would still go to three houses, but in order of 1, 4, and 5. she never really cut anybody, she simply stated the order that she would like to go back to them in the event that she got invited to more than 3.

get it?!?!? heh heh. it's a little confusing, but it works beautifully. yeah!

marissa

#13 09-20-2002, 10:49 AM

UM uses this system and for us its not cutting the houses but just ranking them in preference. For instance

I want to go back to houses A, B, C, F, G, AND I
I cut houses D, E and H
I get invited back to A, B, D, E, and I
I can still go back to those houses cuz they invited me back even though I cut them, but dont have to if I dont want too (even though, it may be good to go back to them)

xo_kathy · #14 09-20-2002, 11:25 AM

Thank you, Squirrely Girl! You explained it perfectly as I could not do!

YES, PNMs rank in order of their preference, they do not CUT a house. Then the computer matches as closely as possible with which houses invited you back! So you almost always go to the maximum number of parties! (Unless you got cut by a bunch of houses. In which case, there is no difference between the two systems. You can only go back to houses that invited you back). And then even "less cool" houses get decent size parties. It definitely eleviates all the PNMs going to one or two specific houses because of reputation.

LeslieAGD · #15 09-21-2002, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
I have no idea why anybody would have them do that. I've only heard of one school that does that. I do know that many schools have the women rank their houses after each round and they use those rankings to regret parties only if that PNM has been invited to more parties than she can attend.

In this kind of system, are the PNMs allowed to change their minds and, say, call up their Rho Chi and re-rank the chapters? I just have a problem with the girls possibly making quick decisions and not having a day or even a few hours to really think about what they want and which chapters are best for them.