Do we need civil rights for Greek Organziations?

[BFulton]

Are these houses owned by the university or by the GLOs?

[RUgreek]

Anybody keeping up on the Dartmouth situation? Since when did the Board of Trustees turn to Gestapo tactics? Check out this article... is it just me that sees this out of control?
http://news.excite.com/news/uw/000629/university-94

- RUgreek

[This message has been edited by RUgreek (edited July 07, 2000).]

[33girl]

The Dartmouth administration continues to reach new heights of a-holeness. This was supposed to be a much slower process, not done over the summer when 3/4 of the people are not even there. This is like what Waynesburg College did...after school had recessed, the trustees took a vote to ban Greeks and people got notified by mail. How bleeped up is that?

And if these bars are pieces of memorabilia from decades ago...to come in and destroy them with a jackhammer is despicable, to say the least. Just get rid of the taps and leave the bars there.

[precise3]

True Greek Life
How did we get to this point?

[dc1]

Thanks for the info on this topic..

I read the article and had a couple of concerns:
1. Why destroy the entire bar when Redman's concern is solely the tap?
2. I find it frightening that Redman is moving forward with the plan, blatently disregarding the unanimous student vote to put off the "BEER TAP WITCH HUNT" until the end of the fall semester... it shows that he truelly doesn't care about the student's opinions or concerns... perhaps to him, the term STUDENT simply means REVENEW (how farmers think of cattle)
3. Quote from the article; "In an interview with The Dartmouth, Redman described THIS FIRST CHANGE resuling from the Initiative as the removal of a strong symbol of alcohol from Greek houses."
If this is only the FIRST change, what is expected to happen with his other changes? Will he ban Beer posters in the houses (or something as rediculous...?
4. Further in the article he mentions "allowing" greek houses to have "portable bars"... now tell me, what is the point of destroying a permanent bar just to replace it with a bar on wheels..? What is he gaining by doing this...? NOTHING.
5. A quote I found interesting; "'It's a use issue,' Redman said. "Do students get BEER there? If the answer is no, should I be concerned? Maybe not.'" So, it is not ok to serve beer from the bar, but Tequilla, Jack Daniels, Jagermeister... those are ok (?)...

Redman must be getting pressure from people in regards to drinking in Greek houses; however, it seems as though he has gotten "off track" with the beer issue. Now he mentioned that this was the first change; I am interested to see what his next change will be, and the next, and the next....




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Faced with the Divine, I was asked; "What one gift do you seek?"
I answered ever so meekly; "I seek Honor, Truth, Integrity, and Wisdom, yet those are four. How am I to choose?"
The answer came as a pounding whisper; "The four you seek are but one. I grant thee Compassion; for without it the four make none."
Author - me

[AXPAlum]

I'm just going to wait for the students to protest like they did for civil rights back in the 1960's. I keep seeing those articles come up about Dartmouth, but I think I saw only one where they held demonstrations or rallies against the administration. Eventually this is going to explode into something big if the students want it bad enough. They just have to keep on fighting, eventually change will occur and they will get their pride and respect back. It's all a game, at least in my opinion, to the Board of Trustees and the Dean of the college. It's the "let's see who has bigger balls" complex and the administration want to see how far they can push the tuition-paying students to do what they say. I really hope this lights a fire under the greeks up there and gets them to protest for this nonsense. I could of sworn Title IX protected student organizations and GLOs, but I guess the law doesn't count in private colleges like Dartmouth.

AXPAlum

[prospectiverushee]

I too read the article and really feel for the students. This proves to me once again that the students have no voice(but the students money does)

And the fact that the administration just happen to make an important decision like this over the summer break doesn't suprise me in the least. The same thing happened here at my school. A lot of us were trying to keep the adminstration from leasing out the Union bookstore and the adminstration "convinced" us that talks were still going on,and that they didn't know what they were going to do, and that they were listening to the students because our voices counted blah,blah,blah. When in reality, the deal had been made, contract sign,t's crossed and i's dotted during Spring break(when convinently nobody was on campus) And to make matters worse, when people did get back to campus, the adminstration STILL tried to pretend that the deal was still in the talking stages!

[mgdzkm433]

Ok, I have a question. Aren't all fraternity and sorority houses supposed to be dry by 2002 anyway? What's the point in the University spending all the funding to remove these things if they will have to be removed anyway in a couple years by the fraternity/sorority? Another thing. Here's a way to preserve the history of the bars and not have to destroy them. no idiot builds a bar around a tap. The bar HAS to be built first then the tap installed. Right? So why not remove the tap and fill the inside of the bar with concrete or some kind of filling? The bars still remains for historical purposes, yet it would be imposible for it to be used again. Or you could even just fill the inside and leave the tap for decoration. This guy is just trying to be a jerk, there are ways to preserve these bars and not tear them down.

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Mikki
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."

--Lao Tzu

[Corbin Dallas]

Lambda Chi Alpha has no plans of going dry. There's no reason as long as you have good risk management. Besides, it's rediculous to say that even those who can legally drink can't drink in their own house, that they pay to live in.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[RUgreek]

Yea, I know that all sororities are making plans to get their chapter houses dry, but most fraternities aren't being forced to go dry. The only incentive that was being offered was slight reduction in insurance premiums. The Values in Action (aka Select 2000) program was designed to force all greek houses to be dry by now, but that program went down the toilet when they realized it is impossible to accomplish. How can you justify forcing a fraternity house to be substance-free and have non-greek house next door or across the street allowed to throw parties and have wild times? Seems like it was being a little discriminating if you ask me. Now, if the program was making the entire university dry, then I think there would have been a different response. And I think there would have been a lot more negative response from the student body.

RUgreek

As far as greeks going dry with respect to Darmouth: Many of the greek chapters there are locals so they would not be affected by Select 2000, or any IFC/NIC/NPC policy regarding going dry. And that's another reason that admin is able to require all groups to go co-ed.

In the same respect check out the following article - (only, you do have to subscribe to see it):
http://chronicle.com/

The article is entitled: "College's Fraternity Rule Does Not Violate Antitrust Laws, Federal Judge Rules" The first paragraph reads as follows.. (needless to say i was horrified!)

Hamilton College did not violate antitrust laws when it required students to live on campus and not in fraternity houses, according to a ruling Thursday by a federal judge. The decision -- which followed an appeals court's ruling that the college's policy could be challenged on antitrust grounds -- is a key victory for private liberal-arts colleges seeking to ban Greek systems.

[Eli]

The solution is simple... get a house off campus, and refer to it as "the House" you can have fraternity functions there, but it will still be designated as a private house (which happens to be owned/rented by a bunch of fraternity people). However, finding someone willing to rent/sell to a fraternity may be a different story.

Easy E www.angelfire.com/va2/gammachi

[AXPAlum]

Not only finding another house could be a problem, but what about getting members to fill both places. I know a lot of chapters have enough trouble squeezing together members to live in a chapter house. Getting a second could become a financial burden and too risky. Besides, what difference would it make if you lived and drank in your chapter house or an off-campus one? Your still fraternity brothers getting busted by the police if they catch you in either one. Maybe the only benefit will be your national won't get a report about it.

AXPAlum

[RUgreek]

I was again lookin at the story about Dartmouth's bars and besides the obvious questions that it poses, I have another. I read this particular article and was wondering what this "sophomore winter rush" thing is that they are talking about. If anyone can explain this to me, I'd be interested in understanding. Thanks
http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....d=200007030103

- RUgreek

[BFulton]

Originally posted by Eli:
The solution is simple... get a house off campus, and refer to it as "the House" you can have fraternity functions there, but it will still be designated as a private house (which happens to be owned/rented by a bunch of fraternity people). However, finding someone willing to rent/sell to a fraternity may be a different story.

Easy E www.angelfire.com/va2/gammachi

My understanding is that this would also still leave your fraternity (local and national) open for lawsuits should something happen (using the if it looks like a fraternity house, and functions are held like it was a fraternity house, even if you don't call it one, it is acting like a fraternity house.)

(I still have a question about how a campus can require the specific property actions Dartmouth is, unless they own the residences - can anyone shed light on this matter?)



[This message has been edited by BFulton (edited July 17, 2000).]