PNM Questions regarding sorority life

[James]

Edited for Italics and sense.

Since a lot of people believe that MTV's Sorority Life will sponsor a lot of misconceptions for potential new members (what a mouthful NPC has given us in the name of politcal correctness) that will translate into wierd questions.

So lets role-play a little and see if we can guess a lot of their questions and suggest different answers. Kind of like the infamous: 10 objections to joining, that we all get to hear about every year.

I'll start with some common questions and some answers. I am sure that you will have different answers and more questions. Also some of my answers might be way off because I am not a girl.

Also, these questions are posed more formally than they would be in conversation.

Q. Do you have pledge houses?

A. No we don't have pledge houses that was just a device MTV used so they could follow a group.

Q. Do girls talk about each other in sororities?

A. People don't stop being people when they join a sorority, so some will and some won't. Much like your current circle of friends.

Q. Do you slap each other a lot?

A. It almost never happens and if it did the people would be called before the chapter. Although if we don't know about it . . . well we don't know.

Q. Are there a lot of rules new members have to follow while joining the sorority?

[/i]A. Well if you live in the sorority house there is no alcohol and no boys past a certain time. And there are certain rules of conduct you have to follow. [/i]

Q. Will we have to move rocks or something like that?

[i]A. You won't have to move rocks, our organization considers that hazing. You may be asked to do other similar types of team building activites, but it would not be late at night and actives would be doing it with you.

Q. Are the new members held to a higher standard than initated Sisters? For example: are new members likely to be called-out before initated sisters for the same types of behaviors.

A. Yes, they are held to a higher standard.

Q. Why?

A. I have no idea. . . I am running out of time right now lol.

Here are some more possible questions:

Q. Will we be expected to party less than active Sisters?

Q. Will you really care what we wear like the girls on the show did?

Q. Will the sisters actually be discussing the we behave to each other when we are not present to defend ourselves?

Q. Would you really come to us and say that you "heard" stuff about us without telling us who "said" so we can know what you are talking about? Why?

Q. Will we be required to attend a lot of events?

Q. If its not "required", are there penalties if we don't go, or don't go to enough events?

I am sure you can think of more also . . . but I think some might be difficult to answer without scaring PNM's.

[Rudey]

Like any "potential new member" is going to listen to a guy who turned down a threesome.

-Rudey

[James]

You are inattentive. Or deliberately misrepresenting.

I wrote that I found out she was into threesomes (girls only) months after not calling. Had she proferred that tid bit of information initially I would have been much more likely to call.

And most PNM's (male) would love to listen to a story about even a missed-threesome. LOL

Originally posted by Rudey
Like any "potential new member" is going to listen to a guy who turned down a threesome.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by James
You are inattentive. Or deliberately misrepresenting.

I wrote that I found out she was into threesomes (girls only) months after not calling. Had she proferred that tid bit of information initially I would have been much more likely to call.

And most PNM's (male) would love to listen to a story about even a missed-threesome. LOL

Yes yes you say that but all I hear is "I didn't get a threesome."

-Rudey
--The least you could do is tell all the girls who are about to join a sorority that participating in a threesome is mandatory on the continental U.S.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by KDatUTC
GEE, I thought this was gonna be serious thread. Nice to know it has been tainted...

Rudey, why don't you start your own thread about those kinds of matters? Pretty Please???

Ivory
--No, I'm sorry I can't love you back

Ivory please stop hitting on me. And what exactly would be the point of this thread? Is someone going to keep posting on it every single day to make sure that if a PNM comes here they see it? If a PNM came here looking for this specific info, wouldn't they read the thousand other posts in regards to this matter? I have seen quite a few topics in regards to the differences between the show and reality. Also I don't think anyone has a right to talk about them...because we weren't allowed to talk about a national sorority which has a moderator or two on this board to prevent that.

And yes some might say that if I don't like it I should simply move on to the next thread or start a new one. However, I have a moderator on my side. Her name is OohTeenyWahine and on 3/9/01 she wrote (and I quote):

"We all know that there will be people out there with opinions that differ from yours and I truly accept that.

But I was somewhat offended by the statement "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, MOVE ON TO THE NEXT THREAD OR START A NEW ONE.."

What, we're not allowed to express our dissatisfaction about the threads anymore?"

-Rudey
--I cause trouble

[Kevlar281]

Q. Is it true that Jordan and Candace posed for Playboy?

A. I’ll let you know in a few months.

[KappaKittyCat]

Great thread, James, and perfectly timed! Here's my serious attempt at some serious answers. It's a start, anyway, and if I think of any more I'll add them.

Q. Do you have a pledge house?

A. No, that's just something MTV used to make it look more like the Real World. Sigma won't even have a pledge house after this show's over. It's not their house; it's a house MTV bought and redecorated with IKEA and wired with cameras and mics.

Q. Do girls talk about each other in sororities?

A. People don't stop being people when they join a sorority, so some might and some might not. However, as sisters of XYZ we are bound by ties of loyalty and love that go beyond ordinary friendship. I certainly believe that my sisters have the decency and courage to come to me to hear the "real story" or tell me what they think rather than gossiping (on national TV!) about me behind my back.

Q. Would you really come to us and say that you "heard" stuff about us without telling us who "said" it so we can know what you are talking about?

A. No, we would never do that. Every NPC sorority has some sort of Honour Board or Standards Committee that deals with chapter morale and member behaviour. If any sister is concerned with another's behaviour, she is encouraged to go to the Standards Committee to discuss this, but only after she's brought up her concerns with the sister herself. It is not the job of the chapter as a whole to interfere if a issue is not effecting the chapter. The Standards Committee is the group that the chapter entrusts with dangerous behaviour issues or issues that do effect the chapter. Furthermore, everything that goes on in Honour Board/Standards Committee is completely confidential, so as to keep the amount of gossip to a minimum.

Q. Will the sisters actually be discussing the way we behave with each other when we are not present to defend ourselves?

A. As sisters, both Active and NM, we are responsible to make sure that those we love do not do things that might be harmful to themselves or others. If the Standards Committee is concerned about a sister's behaviour, she will be invited to a meeting so that these issues can be addressed. Above all, we are concerned for each other's health and well-being. Once again, all such discussion is confidential.

Q. Are there a lot of rules we have to follow while pledging the sorority?

A. All sisters of XYZ, both Active and NM, are expected to live up to high standards. The rules that apply to NMs are the same ones that apply to Actives. Anything different would be considered hazing. If you were to live in the house, there would be certain rules that you would be expected to follow, such as no alcohol, no boys after a certain time, no open flame, etc., but that would be part of a binding contract that you sign when moving in.

Q. Are the new members held to a higher standard than initated sisters? Are pledges likely to be called out before initated sisters for the same types of behaviours?

A. In terms of the standard of behaviour, all sisters must follow the same rules. In terms of NMs being called out more, maybe. Sometimes. You'll certainly have more people watching you.

Q. Why?

A. Well, more people will be watching you because we all love our NMs very much. We feel very lucky to have you and we want to get to know everything about you. We also want you to get to know about us, both as individuals and as a sorority. We want to make sure you're aware of the standards of behaviour that are expected of all XYZs. For that reason, if there are behavioural concerns, we'd rather call them to your attention early on than let them fester.

Q. They're always talking about "un-Sigma-like" behaviour, and the pledges keep getting in trouble for being un-Sigma-like when they do fun things like go out to clubs or parties. What is considered "un-XYZ-like" behavior?

A. We encourage our sisters to remember that they are not only representing themselves, but XYZs everywhere, at all times. It's kind of like the speech your teacher used to give before you went on field trips in elementary school. "Remember, today you are representing our entire school and community. You wouldn't want the Science Museum to think that all Central Elementary students are horribly behaved, would you? They might never invite us back, and that wouldn't be happy or fair to others." For that basic reason, we do not wear our letters when we go out to bars, etc. Your business is your business and the chapter will not intervene unless we fear that you are doing something that might be harmful to yourself or to others. Should a case like that arise, the Standards Committee will deal with it confidentially. Overall, we hope that our sisterhood in XYZ will help us grow and become more mature, responsible women.

Q. Will we have to move rocks or something like that?

A. You won't have to move rocks, and you certainly won't have to do it in the freezing cold by yourselves; our organization considers that hazing. You may be asked to do other similar types of team building activites, but it would not be late at night and outside in the cold. You'll always have prior notice of such events, and Actives will be joining the NMs for them.

Q. Do you slap each other a lot?

A. I certainly hope not! We're sisters, and we're supposed to love and respect each other. Physical violence is never, ever acceptable. If something like that should happen, the sister, whether Active or NM, would be called before the Chapter or the Standards Committee. Such an incedent could result in probation or loss of membership.

Q. The Pledges on Sorority Life partied a lot and the Sisters didn't like it much. Are we expected to party less while we're pledges?

A. Of course not. You're expected to be yourself (while being mindful of the way you're representing XYZ). But your most important task as a student is to get an education. If we're concerned that a sister's partying is effecting her studies, then the Scholarship Chair might say something to her. XYZs are expected to put their studies first, but that's no different from anyone else at Random University, Greek or not.

Q. Will you really care what we wear like the girls on the show did?

A. Again, all we really care about is that you be yourself. There are certain guidelines we have, such as "No wearing your New Member Pin or Badge with jeans or athletic shoes" or "No wearing your letters to a bar or when you're out drinking." Of course, if an XYZ were going to go out by herself in particularly suggestive attire and a sister were concerned for her safety because of it, the sister would say something, but that's no more than being a friend and a sister.

Q. Will we be required to attend all kinds of events and stuff all the time?

A. Most chapters require you to attend one regular chapter meeting and one New Member education session per week. You'll be given a calendar of events and informed of each chapter's attendence policy for required events ahead of time. Things like class and rehearsal are always excused and things like team practice and other meetings are almost always excused. Chapter and NM meetings are at the same time each week, so you will be able to plan around them.

Q. Are there penalties if we don't go to events, or if we don't go to enough events?

A. If an event is not required, then there won't be a penalty for not attending. Some chapters use a points or incentive system to encourage attendence at non-required activities. Each chapter has its own attendence policy for required events. The consequences for missing events are spelled out there, as are the ways to get an absence excused.

Q. So how many points do we have to have for Initiation?

A. None! Requiring a certain number of points to qualify for Initiation is hazing. Initiation is not something you earn; it's something that you get to do after you've completed the required NM education program. Though some chapters might use points to keep track of events that sisters attend, you can't lose points and your Initiation would ceratinly not be jeopardized by the number of points you have or don't have. Once you've pledged a sorority, you're scheduled to be Initiated after a 4 to 10 week NM education program. Only extreme circumstances can change that.

Q. When do you vote about who gets to be Initiated?

A. Before we invite women to Preference Round during Formal Recruitment, or before we extend a bid during Informal Recruitment. Any woman who's invited to Preference could receive a bid, and any woman who receives a bid can become a sister. Once a woman accepts her bid and is pledged, she has no obstacles between her and Initiation once she's completed the required NM education. We choose our sisters (and you choose us) during Recruitment.

[Edited with regard to NMs living in. Guess I was working with some incorrect information there. My bad.]

Q. Do you have pledge houses?

A. No. The only time that I have heard of something like this is when a sorority happens to own two houses and lets upperclassmen live in one and underclassmen live in the other. This is rare however. Most sororities just have ONE house.

Q. Do girls talk about each other in sororities?

A. That's something that just happens in life. I am not going to lie and say I haven't heard any of my sisters talking about other sisters or that I am not gulity of it myself at times. You're not going to absolutely love everyone in the house. It's not possible. There are going to be some sisters that you are closer to than others. But everyone is here because we all had something in common, something that we share.

Q. Do you slap each other a lot?
(If a PNM even asked me this question, I am not sure how serious I would take them rushing. However, since there are some people who might think this is a legit question.)

A. I personally have never seen it happen in this house. But, I can imagine that tempers do flare sometimes and people do lose control. Even if it wasn't meant to go that far the sister who harmed the other sister would be brought up on charges to the EC (Executive Council) and possibly our IHQ on "unsisterly-like conduct" standards. There would be a hearing, and the sister could be forced out of the sorority. Our organization, this house and its members in no way tolerate harmful and/or destructive behavior towards or by its members.

Q. Are there a lot of rules new members have to follow while joining the sorority?

A. I wouldn't say a lot, but there are rules. Most of it is just using common sense. There are rules for the house, like the time guys are allowed in the house, no alcohol, respecting sisters and property, dinner. Then there is just basically remembering that when you go out or whatever, especially if it involved other greeks, that you represent your org. Like anything just try not to do something that you may regret the next day. Act accordingly.

Q. Will we have to move rocks or something like that?

[i]A. No, we dont move rocks, but we DO paint the rock. Its a tradition here just like moving the rocks is there. However, its not a mandatory activity. Although everyone is encouraged to particpate including actives. Furthermore, we do have what are called sisterhood events, that invoove team building and just speaning time with sisters getting to know them and having fun. Making it mandatory could be considered hazing by our org, and they take it very seriously.

Q. Are the new members held to a higher standard than initated Sisters?

A. All sisters whether new members or actives are held to the same standards. No questions about it. Just as an active has the right to bring up concerns about the behavior of a new mem, a new mem has the right to bring up concerns about an active.

** You wouldnt know if you were running out of time, because we are not allowed to wear watches or look at the clocks during rush**

Q. Will we be expected to party less than active Sisters?

A. No, party as much as you want, just do it responsibly.

Q. Will you really care what we wear like the girls on the show did?

A. No, as long as you're wearing something

Q. Will the sisters actually be discussing the we behave to each other when we are not present to defend ourselves?

That just goes back to people talking about each other. It may and may not happen. The only time I can see this being a big issue is if the behavior is affecting the new member class or the house. Other than that, your issues are your business and no one elses.

Q. Would you really come to us and say that you "heard" stuff about us without telling us who "said" so we can know what you are talking about? Why?

Possibly, just for the fact that we wouldn't want a whole lot of drama to go on after, or if someone told us the information in confidentiality. But, depending on the situation you probably will find out who told, just so that you can talk to this person (possibly with a mediator)first about their concerns.

Q. Will we be required to attend a lot of events?

A. We have our events classified by our colors. Red being mandatory (attend 100%) but there are only about 2 a semester. Buff being you have to attend at least 50% and Green (sisterhood) that you have to attend at least 20%. We generally hold a lot of greens. we know ppl have things to do, like study and work. Also, you can write the VP Operations an excuse note a week or so before the event to say why you can't make it. Again this is for all sisters, actives and new members.

Q. If its not "required", are there penalties if we don't go, or don't go to enough events?

The only time there are penalities (which are fines), is if you miss an event like chapter or initiation without an excuse being handed in or known (we do know that things just happen at the spur of the moment too). It's nice to try to go to as many as possible, because you do get points for them, which goes towards parking spaces and picking rooms for the following year.

It was nice to meet you and thank you for coming to Alpha Gamma Delta! Hope you enjoy recruitment.

*closes door, than clapses on the floor from 6 hours of recruitment*

-- I don't think its possible to answer all those question in the amount of time one person has with a PNM. They could be answered by all the people she speaks with though

[NatalieCD]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat

Requiring a certain number of points to qualify for Initiation is hazing.

Is that really considered hazing?

[chideltjen]

I agree with your points Umgirl

The only few things that might be different is that:

We do hold teamb0nding nights for nms: it's fun stuff like carving pumpkins and watching movies together.

We do require all members to participate in events, but you can have the excuse of "calling in sick" for reasons of health, school work, or family. Sometimes we allow for work purposes depending on the situation. Then there are the optional events like big philanthropies that people can sign up for. If they sign up they are required to go. If not, no worries but still come out and support.

Other than that... i think you covered it.

[KappaKittyCat]

NatalieCD: As far as I know, according to NPC, requiring points or anything that implies that Initiation is "earned" is considered hazing.

UMGirl: I wouldn't even think of trying to answer all those in a single Recruitment party. Yikes! I was thinking of this as more of a place to dry-run an FAQ sheet for my sisters pre-Recruitment.

Glad we got back on-topic.

Chideltjen-- Thanks you very much . Obviously some of the responses will differ for every org. I think the big things is to be real and acknowledge that some of these things could happen. It's part of life, being in a sorority or fraternity doesnt make it different. Even though the questions are inquiring about whether your house is like Sigma and MTV, I would personally try to avoid using their names or saying anything about them. Just stick to the facts about your house. You never know how you might come off looking.

Kitty Kat: I am glad we got back to the original topic and I am still waiting James for you to counterback with more questions .
I can actually see a PNM trying to ask one girl all these questions in the five minutes she may have with her. They are really anxious about rush and want to know if what they saw on MTV is what they'll be getting, or some who saw MTV and have some concerns because that may not be what they want. My feeling is that someone out there will be pounded with 2 or 3 of them

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
...An NPC sorority would have fits if anyone suggested New Members' living in.

...Also, living in is a privilage for older, Active members. No NPC sorority allows NM's to live in.

...So how many points do we have to have for Initiation?

I thought your post had many valid points to it. Good job!

Just wanted to comment on these points -- Alpha Chi Omega does allow NM's to live in. I stated in another thread that once the bid card is signed, the NM is granted the same rights and privileges as an initiated sister (or lifetime member as we are called) - they just don't know ritual. They attend all our events, meetings, etc. and are certainly offered rooms in the house/hall/dorm, as available. Now that doesn't guarantee them a room -- because living arrangements are made in the semester prior to recruitment, but if there is a vacancy, then a NM is allowed to fill it if she so desires. I can't speak for other NPC groups, but wanted to clarify that AXO does allow for this.

As for the points system - I saw someone else question this as hazing - yes, for AXO anyway, the NM "points" system is considered hazing. In fact, we just had our hand slapped because we give the NM's these pretty paper cut-out lyres that we hang on the wall, and for each "accomplishment" she makes (in personal or sorority life - for example, if she attends a forum on domestic violence), she gets a paper "pearl" on the lyre. The original objective was to show them how proud we are of what they do in and outside of sorority life. And they always LOVED to show off their "pearls" - well, Nationals said "NOPE" - because this could be used as "mental leverage" on them to hold them to higher standards or whatever. So unfortunately, even something that is designed to reward them and boost their confidence, can be misconstrued under the right circumstances. So that was that.

[Rio_Kohitsuji]

In defense of all the PNM's out there, I really wouldn't worry about some of 'us' asking those kind of questions. At least, the pnm's who have been around at least a year scoping out their choices on campus and seeing which one is right for them, not just the fact of gaining some letters. (Especially the slapping question, I may just ask that one to my 'favorite' sorority, lol)
Also, I still do not believe some of the 'hazing' acts as hazing. It's a bunch of BS. If I join a sorority, I want to EARN my letters, just like the actives did when they were pledging. Heck, I have four older biological sisters, and back in the day the things they did to me would be considered hazing...much worse than what any GLO would wanna do! Well, those are my worthless 2 cents of randomness.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by AXO Alum
As for the points system - I saw someone else question this as hazing - yes, for AXO anyway, the NM "points" system is considered hazing. In fact, we just had our hand slapped because we give the NM's these pretty paper cut-out lyres that we hang on the wall, and for each "accomplishment" she makes (in personal or sorority life - for example, if she attends a forum on domestic violence), she gets a paper "pearl" on the lyre. The original objective was to show them how proud we are of what they do in and outside of sorority life. And they always LOVED to show off their "pearls" - well, Nationals said "NOPE" - because this could be used as "mental leverage" on them to hold them to higher standards or whatever. So unfortunately, even something that is designed to reward them and boost their confidence, can be misconstrued under the right circumstances. So that was that.

Wow. It's sad that something like that, intended to be fun, could be twisted into hazing. The whole point (pun intended) of this sort of thing is to encourage the NMs to take on an active role, both in the sorority and in the greater community in and around campus.

AEPhi has a "pearls" system where NMs "earn" the 27 pearls in the badge by participating in cultural events, activities, and sorority events. This is part of the national NM education program. It's very easy to earn pearls - NMs often end up getting most or all of their pearls for things they would do anyway, like playing a varsity or IM sport, going to a concert or museum, etc. Pearls can't be taken away. If you're a few pearls short when initiation is held, you're still initiated just the same and you're still just as much a sister. (The running joke is that the sisters will remove 1 or 2 pearls from your badge but that does not actually happen.)

BUT, sisters are also expected to get involved in the sorority, in on-campus activities, and in the community to the same degree as the NMs. Since the sisters are doing it too, I wouldn't consider it hazing. True, NMs are asked to keep more careful track of their activities, but mainly that's because it's the first semester they're doing it.

As for NMs living in the house, my chapter of AEPhi didn't have a house, so I'm not sure what the policy is - but my freshman year, Alpha Phi had just gotten a huge house and they were having trouble filling it, so two NMs did live there. So that makes two NPC sororities that allow it.