Are your grades worth anything?

[hoosier]

Nowadays you younguns are paying top dollar (many many top dollars, many of them borrowed) for your education, but it means less and less.

Today, almost everyone gets good grades, signifying nothing. At Harvard, 49 percent of the grades awarded in recent years have been A or A-. 91 percent of the Harvard grads in June 2001 graduated "with honors."

BUT, most employers don't care about grades. Employers want well-rounded grads who have done more than go to class and study for four years (like be a GLO leader).

You and your parents should understand that for the benefits of college to last a lifetime, students must try new things, challenge themselves, interact with different people, and be excited about learning, even if it will not be on an exam.

Grades are not the reason to be in college.

(Thanks to Richard Labunski at U Ky.)

[CrucialCrimson]

I guess that makes me the exception because when I hire a recent graduate, grades are the first thing I look at - then I go to internships, leadership, community service, etc. I look at college as having been the primary focus for that person for the past four years (I don't generally hire folks that take more than four years to get out unless there are some extenuating circumstances) and if they couldn't focus on that well enough to get good grades then how am I to expect them to focus on the on-the-job learning that will be required. Even if you belive that good grades are "passed" out, bad grades are usually earned! My focus on grades lessens for folks that have been out 3-5 years or more, but not for new grads.

[DeltAlum]

At least part of what you contend is true.

However, if you plan to play the academic game (grad school -- including "The Professions"), or stay in education (teaching at most any level), grades are still very important.

I also suspect that there is at least some relationship to grades and how high and fast an employee climbs in any given company -- although there will be major exceptions to that rule.

In terms of Harvard (and others like it), I would expect overall better results from those students due to the higher standards in selection. Wouldn't you?

There is the famous "Catch 22" when you are young of not being able to find work without experience -- and not gaining experience until you've been employed. My own feeling, as a former hiring manager, is that a ballance of decent grades and experience gained while a student mark a well ballanced applicant for entry level work.

Finally, while outstanding grades may only be the tie-breaker in whether you get a job or not -- bad grades will almost certainly hurt you.

[chicagoagd]

I disagree.

1. College students have more pressures to do well because employers want it all – grades AND a well rounded college career.
2. More and more people are going back to school for their MBA, Masters, doctoral – with the job market being tight this necessitates students in making themselves more marketable with a higher education. Remember, good schools are picky, they want to know why your grades aren’t stellar. Good schools usually translate into higher salary dollars down the road.
3. If you are going into any academic or government position, they ask for your transcripts.

More than ever, making yourself stand out is key to your future success. Not to mention, isn’t it better not to have to make excuses about your mediocre grades and be able to show your transcript with pride???

Amy

[IvySpice]

Just want to clarify that Harvard offers many different typs of honors, and everybody (in particular graduate schools) knows the difference between "kept his nose clean" honors and "this guy's a genius" honors.

Cum laude means you kept your nose clean; magna cum laude means you did a very good job; Phi Beta Kappa means you kicked ass (top 10% in grades with a tough curriculum); summa cum laude means you're not merely a genius, but a hardworking genius.

The newspaper articles lump all these together and say everybody gets honors...well, technically it's true, but it doesn't mean what people take it to mean.

I agree that grades are not the reason to be in college, but I also think that the choice between grade-grubbing and real learning is a false dichotomy. I had a wonderful time in college, but I also did the best I could grade-wise, which enabled me to go to my first-choice law school. You don't have to choose between fun and success. The most successful people seek both.

Ivy

[Rudey]

Certain schools have inflated grades and everyone knows that from the recruiters to the grad school adcoms. The schools that are more rigorous actually receive a bit of a benefit to try and counter this when companies and grad schools are looking at candidates. Even Harvard's administration has been issuing new rules on giving grades to lower the rampant inflation.

But I really don't know any job or grad school that doesn't care about grades. Perhaps you'd like to give an example. At my school you won't get looked at by any finance/consulting firm if you don't have above a 3.5, and our average GPA is still below a 3.0. The average GPA to get into med school is also around a 3.5 with the better ones requiring higher scores. And Law school and business schools are the same.

From my experience most of these companies and firms can afford to be real picky. They can afford to pick the kids from better schools, with the best grades, with the best internships, and with the best personalities because there are so many candidates. If you're lacking in any of those departments, you're already at a disadvantage at many places.

-Rudey
--I agree with IvySpice, the most successful people seek both fun and success.

[newsun]

Originally posted by hoosier

BUT, most employers don't care about grades. Employers want well-rounded grads who have done more than go to class and study for four years (like be a GLO leader).

I agree!

If you want to work for a big company or firm, then human resource recruiters will only go to well known universities and look at students with a GPA of X.XX or higher. There are so many students and recruiters have limited time, so grades are an easy first cut off point. BUT, going to expensive universities and big companies does not equal higher long term salaries or a better quality of life.

Most employers want people with experience, produce results, and who can get up to speed quickly, etc. So, get experience in your field with co-ops or interships, learn to produce as well as lead and delegate, network, and most important have goals.

Remember, after your first "real" job, the majority of employers do not care about colleges grades at all!

[Rudey]

Where exactly are you getting this from??

Originally posted by newsun
Remember, after your first "real" job, the majority of employers do not care about colleges grades at all!

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newsun
Remember, after your first "real" job, the majority of employers do not care about colleges grades at all! [/QUOTE

From my years of experience in big companies, I would not entirely agree -- however, I do believe that grades become less important as the "real life" experience level increases. There may become a point where grades, per se, aren't important -- but the degree is still one of the stronger calling cards a person has. I don't believe that happens until a few years into your career, though.

You still have to get that first job. By the way, an internship is NOT a job. It's a great place to learn, but interns, by and large, aren't given huge amounts of responsibility and aren't under anywhere close to the pressure to perform as employees are.

[Optimist Prime]

grades matter. The economy sucks for people with C averages. The job markert is better for people with A. I thought the name "hoosier" was banned.