why?

[Tinkerbell1]

Why is this group so supportive of GLOs' exclusivity (see below comment) yet are closed to PNMs who show that SAME attitude by not "maximizing all of their options" by dropping out of recruitment when they don't like the houses they are left with? Could it be that some long-time GC members are (still) defensive about belonging to GLOs that are not "competitive" or are bottom ranked chapters?

I had to prep for recruitment by reading what's online and the tone on this site is toxic. Having now gone through the process and graduated, I do understand how rankings weaken greek life and how ALL girls in all groups, especially those at elite schools, are smart and high achievers. I also understand that not all girls have style or are outgoing or are as pretty as others, etc and how these things absolutely factor into rankings and why girls get cut and why girls drop certain chapters, because in the end, it IS a mutual selection process.

You older-sounding ladies on this site rank in your own way and with your own jargon but get upset when others do it (defensive much?). You also protect exclusivity and then don't accept it in PNMs'. Be consistent. Stop being rude to women who share their disappointment about not getting into a desired house. If girls want to be part of the chapter that has the prettiest or most stylish girls, they can shoot for WHICHEVER chapter they want because in the end, all groups develop a sisterhood and have fun experiences together, including the rich or pretty girls. And if someone gets cut from the chapter of choice, maybe you all can give them tips for getting in in other ways instead being hurt and rude.

01-25-2014, 01:41 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
GreekChat Member

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Back in the Heartland
Posts: 5,191
Why?

These are private organizations who can pick WHOEVER they want. Rush just makes the process of finding which girls they want easier. There is no contract that says they have to choose ANY girls through formal rush.

[Kevin]

This isn't really my lane, but please note that this forum is over 10 years old and that in many cases, you are criticizing folks whose posts are many years old, so unless you want to respond to the specific threads you are criticizing, I'm not sure what you're doing here.

Our forum participants are consistent--encouraging PNMs to go through recruitment with an open mind. At competitive schools, not everyone ends up where they wanted to end up. As you know now, PNMs generally do not know a lot of the things known by members of this forum who have collectively more experience with recruitment than probably any other community and they have a great way of telling people what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear.

[LAblondeGPhi]

So - I'll bite.

First - I think a lot of it has to do with consequences and having a reasonable expectation for your decisions. What I've seen a lot of, and what I personally dislike, is young women going through recruitment and feeling entitled to membership in only the organizations they loved right off the bat, and then complaining when that doesn't happen. Any complaining from someone who didn't maximize her options will fall on deaf ears. If that's a decision you decided to make, then don't complain about the consequences. You were warned.

Second - I truly believe that there's a lot of legitimacy to the idea that 90+% of PNMs will be happy in any of the houses on their campus if they gave each house a legitimate shot, especially at chapters with 100+ members. You'll find women you like there. It's almost impossible not to.

Third - And this goes along with #2, we've all seen from experience how recruitment can be blinding and emotional. We all know that if most PNMs stick it out and join the chapter they were meh about, that the vast majority will grow to love it. We also know that loving a chapter in recruitment doesn't always mean happiness on the other side - there are plenty of women who deactivate from chapters they loved during recruitment.

Fourth - While sororities individually are selective, at most schools, the system as a whole is very, very inclusive. Look at the stats, and you'll see that at most schools, the number of PNMs who are outright dropped from recruitment is pretty tiny. On the sorority side, our organizations have learned that this inclusivity has been better for our groups. While our sororities are bound to comply with certain return guidance, PNMs aren't bound by anything except their own desires.

Whew - those are a couple of reasons, and I don't doubt that there's some "if only" feelings from those of us who were in weaker chapters. But, I do believe that a lot of the snark on GC comes from a loving, albeit frustrated place. We want the best for these PNMs, and to those who are really heartbroken, we know, from experience and maturity, that they probably could have had a perfectly happy outcome with their "last choice."

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I also want to point out that groups who aren't as strong in formal recruitment adjust and re-adjust their expectations throughout the process to fill their new member class. I have seen plenty of heartbreak when Suzie Awesome chooses not to return to a chapter. But if the collegians said, "you know what? we didn't get all the PNM's we wanted to return to second invitational, we're just not going to settle for the ones who weren't on our radar at the beginning" you better believe any/every alumna on this board would make heads roll.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell1

Why is this group so supportive of GLOs' exclusivity (see below comment) yet are closed to PNMs who show that SAME attitude by not "maximizing all of their options" by dropping out of recruitment when they don't like the houses they are left with? Could it be that some long-time GC members are (still) defensive about belonging to GLOs that are not "competitive" or are bottom ranked chapters?

I had to prep for recruitment by reading what's online and the tone on this site is toxic. Having now gone through the process and graduated, I do understand how rankings weaken greek life and how ALL girls in all groups, especially those at elite schools, are smart and high achievers. I also understand that not all girls have style or are outgoing or are as pretty as others, etc and how these things absolutely factor into rankings and why girls get cut and why girls drop certain chapters, because in the end, it IS a mutual selection process.

You older-sounding ladies on this site rank in your own way and with your own jargon but get upset when others do it (defensive much?). You also protect exclusivity and then don't accept it in PNMs'. Be consistent. Stop being rude to women who share their disappointment about not getting into a desired house. If girls want to be part of the chapter that has the prettiest or most stylish girls, they can shoot for WHICHEVER chapter they want because in the end, all groups develop a sisterhood and have fun experiences together, including the rich or pretty girls. And if someone gets cut from the chapter of choice, maybe you all can give them tips for getting in in other ways instead being hurt and rude.

01-25-2014, 01:41 PM
DubaiSis DubaiSis is offline
GreekChat Member

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Back in the Heartland
Posts: 5,191
Why?

These are private organizations who can pick WHOEVER they want. Rush just makes the process of finding which girls they want easier. There is no contract that says they have to choose ANY girls through formal rush.

My initial thoughts are pretty much what Kevin has already written so I won't sport with you by saying the same thing he's said using different words. Truthfully, I'm not even sure what your point is because I see you talking out of both sides of your mouth in at least three different places in your post. I'll leave it to others to identify the incongruities and inconsistencies.

Toxic? No. Truthful? Yes.

PS if you took the time to search GC you'd find excellent threads on "re-rushing". But no one can tell anyone "how to get in in other ways." SMH.

[FSUZeta]

You want to see toxic? Take a look at that other site.

Really? Older sounding ladies? What? Can you hear our voices quivering through our posts? Or did you mean educated ladies?

Most members here are supportive of PNMs, taking the time to give legitimate, valuable advice. Admittedly we do tire of a PNM asking the same question in different GC forums because she doesn't like the answer she got. Even then, we usually patiently point out that she was answered in a different forum and there is no need to post multiple times.

Here's a tip: at some schools the "cut once and you're done" chapter is a reality. If a chapter cut you, even if you go thru rush again you will be cut again. There is no magic bullet we can offer that will change that chapter's decision, and we are not going to hand out platitudes to make a PNM think anything will change the chapter's mind. Our advice will always be to keep going, give the other chapters a chance, and if no chapter appeals to you at bid signing, then don't sign a bid.

[jolene]

We're very Panhellenic friendly here. Even if I've written a rec for a girl and she joins a different sorority, I'm still happy for her. I would guess that the others on here feel the same. I'm happy when any young woman finds her sorority home--chapters are different from campus to campus and have different 'personalities.' Later in college I found my best friend in a different sorority (we were recruitment counselors together and she's a Phi Mu). This site is very positive, encouraging but honest. Every active or alumna here wants you to have your eyes wide open when you go through recruitment. That other site is poison.

[navane]

Hold on, here.....I think we need to step back and look at things in context. It's not fair to pull out one person's post from 2014 and use that as the sole example.

I went to the trouble of finding DubaiSis' post in the original thread. I found it and read to see to whom she was replying when she made the comment. It was a thread about the results of recruitment at Indiana University in 2014. Here is the post to which DubaiSis was replying. A mother appears to be upset because she heard about another girl who received a COB bid after recruitment. She felt that sororities should have been obligated to offer bids to girls who paid to go through recruitment.

01-25-2014, 10:36 AM
Indiana mom
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8

In response to the girls that were offered snap bids - I know for sure one girl did not go through any of the recruitment process. She told everyone she was not interested in Rushing. She did receive a snap bid the day after snap bid. She did accept. She did not pay the Rush fee that my daughter and hundreds other paid and did not receive a bid. She did not travel back to IU early. to commit days visiting houses in the freezing cold.
Unfair is an understatement.

This chapter should at the very least be required to pick from the girls who went through all the hard work of formal requirement.

DubaiSis's reply was:

01-25-2014, 10:41 AM
DubaiSis
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Back in the Heartland
Posts: 5,192


Why?

These are private organizations who can pick WHOEVER they want. Rush just makes the process of finding which girls they want easier. There is no contract that says they have to choose ANY girls through formal rush.

This comment makes WAY more sense now that it is read in context of the conversation. Here, DubaiSis appears to be making reference to the TIMING of when membership can be extended and not necessarily saying "sororities don't have to be open minded, but PNMs do."

Here it is: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ns#post2257917

[33girl]

If we tell girls to maximize their options or not drop out, it's because we've seen lots and lots and lots and lots of women reconsider their decisions after they do the opposite. On this board, and in our real lives.

A girl can "shoot" for whatever chapter she wants, but this isn't American Idol - you can't audition over and over for years, and your chances most certainly do not improve on the 3rd or 4th try.

As for "tips to get in other ways" - I can't even imagine what you might be suggesting.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

As for "tips to get in other ways" - I can't even imagine what you might be suggesting.

I know, I know! Remember in the weird rush stories thread how a girl didn't like her bid so she just hopped on the fire truck that was taking the girls from her desired sorority to their bid day party?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

As for "tips to get in other ways" - I can't even imagine what you might be suggesting.

I keep thinking that some good advice here might be to rerush, but with blonde hair? Maybe the PNM should hire a lawyer and get a legal name change and go back through formal retirement under the new name?

[als463]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This isn't really my lane, but please note that this forum is over 10 years old and that in many cases, you are criticizing folks whose posts are many years old, so unless you want to respond to the specific threads you are criticizing, I'm not sure what you're doing here.

Our forum participants are consistent--encouraging PNMs to go through recruitment with an open mind. At competitive schools, not everyone ends up where they wanted to end up. As you know now, PNMs generally do not know a lot of the things known by members of this forum who have collectively more experience with recruitment than probably any other community and they have a great way of telling people what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear.

First, I want to point out that while Kevin is a fraternity man, I do not believe he was the least bit out of his lane by explaining that people should keep an open mind. Thank you, Kevin. I thought it was a great response. As far as someone coming on to a forum and complaining in post #2 about the mean-spirited people on GC, I actually had to laugh at the irony. "I don't like mean people who I think are judgmental but, I'm going to be judgmental and mean to others."

You may not get the organization you love at first but, later find it's where you were meant to be all along. As someone noted earlier in this thread, women drop out of sororities that were their top choices too. Membership in a Greek organization is not just four years. Instead, it's for life. You take an oath. You will have ladies you do not like in your organization, either specifically in your chapter or throughout nationwide. There is so much more to being a sorority woman than the letters you wear on your chest or the cute mascot-themed items you receive during Big/ Little week.

I believe the women on this board can be quite uplifting but, they are also honest. In my line of work, I find that I often have to be that reality check to people because no one ever told them the truth. It's unfortunate when I have to deliver the harsh news that things may not work out 100% planned but, it's better to be informed. I hope the OP will recognize that GC is much more than snarky comments or bitter women who do not know what they are talking about. Use this as a resource.

[BlueCarnation]

[QUOTE=Tinkerbell1;2409236] Stop being rude to women who share their disappointment about not getting into a desired house. If girls want to be part of the chapter that has the prettiest or most stylish girls, they can shoot for WHICHEVER chapter they want because in the end, all groups develop a sisterhood and have fun experiences together, including the rich or pretty girls. And if someone gets cut from the chapter of choice, maybe you all can give them tips for getting in in other ways instead being hurt and rude.
QUOTE]

I think everyone else has made really good points that I don't need to repeat, but I have to say that I don't think anyone on here is "rude" to girls who get cut from chapters of their choice. When young women (or their moms or whoever) come on here asking for advice, they need to be prepared to accept it, not fish around for the answer they WANT to hear. I also think most of the women on here give their advice and thoughts precisely because they want PNMs to join WHICHEVER chapter they want; most of us had wonderful sorority experiences, many of us are still actively involved in our alumnae groups and know what recruitment is like at certain schools, and since we are being asked, we are trying to help so that other young women can have similar experiences to what we had. What good would it do any of us to be rude? Granted, there are times that people come on here looking to start something, and they may deserve a rude response, but that is very rare. And the great thing about this and every other website is, if you don't want to look at it, don't.

[33girl]

That word "rude," I do not think it means what the OP thinks it means.

Rude: "I'm not surprised you got cut by XYZ. They only take the most stellar girls and girlfriends of football players. You're so much better off, you were dumb to think you had a chance. Suck it up and deal with what you have left."

What is usually said on GC: "I'm so sorry you got cut from XYZ. I hope you will keep an open mind and look at the chapters that are still inviting you back to parties with fresh eyes rather than comparing them to XYZ."

No one here is saying that less popular chapters have some sort of moral high ground over the more popular chapters. We're simply saying that only looking at the most popular chapters (or jobs, cities, houses, anything in life) will result in losing out on a lot. If you honestly would rather not be Greek than be a member of a less popular chapter or you only want one group, you can come to that decision and that's your choice, but then don't come back and cry and whine about how much you wish you were Greek.

[DubaiSis]

Wow! I'm famous!

I will acknowledge a few things here. First, I have made some great (and real life) friends through GC. We have many times talked back and forth through here. The posts start to add up.

Secondly, a person really needs to understand that it is not mutual selection, regardless of what gets said. The sororities choose and the girls either say yes or no. My contention is that virtually all women would be happy in virtually any chapter. If they keep their minds open that meh chapter might turn out just fine. Or dare I say it, awesome. But it is true that she can accept her options. Or not. But don't come whining to us about it when you chose the super special snowflake route instead of grinning and bearing the truth of your situation. You may be a perfectly lovely girl but in the spectrum of sorority rush, you might just be ordinary. There is nothing wrong with ordinary. Unless you think you're the prom queen of college.

Third, we are nameless faceless entities on the interwebs. If you choose to be offended by the hurtful comments you perceive, that's on you. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to read my musings or commandments. I love my sorority, the Greek system and the Panhellenic spirit. And it bugs the hell out of me when some teenager knows better than I do what is best for the Greek system as a whole. And the mother who doesn't know jack about squat but thinks she's the expert on all things sorority because her super special snowflake rushed and failed, yeah, my heart bleeds that she doesn't like me.