PrejudICE/Racism...semantics?

[librasoul22]

Okay y'all...I think some of us have seen the madness on the "Chit Chat" forum. I was wondering what YOUR opinion is...maybe we can have a candid convo here since most seem to not have the energy to deal with the "other" GCers.

Race: A viable concept? Your definition? In the bigger picture?

My take? RACE is BS. No such thing. As I stated in the thread in Chit Chat, there is nationality, ancestory, heritage, and then there is SKIN COLOR. RACE is a mechanism used to classify and divide.

African-American - NATIONALITY

Black - SKIN COLOR (sorta)

RACE - ???? Little box to check on tests and surveys.

[4MYPEOPLE]

Hmmm...I did not read the chit chat posts, but I can say, that people naturally try to group themselves by common denominator.

Every thing is a construct of human beings... so if that makes it BS then skin color, ancestry, nationality, are all "BS" I will tell you why... What makes someone Nigerian vs. Ghanian? For many there is nothing that makes them different, same tribe, same last name, same custom, same language, just the dividing line was drawn through their village... Nationality is a social construct.

African American, you cant get more socially constructed than that.... we were not born in Africa, so what makes us African American, its because we want to have a link to our past... a construct we created that has nothing to do with direct lineage, more of an understanding of our lineage...

Now with race as a concept itself..it does exist. There are definite bone structure differences that make people of different races that have nothing to do with their skin color. There are people of the Caucasoid (white) race that are North African.

My point is..because it has been used in EVIL ways, does not make the concepts mute... there are races, there are ethnicities, there are nationalities, all created by human beings to have something in common or differnent by another....but the differences do exist and because they have been used to enslave, rape and abuse us do not mean they dont exist. As women our sex classification has been used to oppress us, are we not still women?

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by 4MYPEOPLE
Hmmm...I did not read the chit chat posts, but I can say, that people naturally try to group themselves by common denominator.

Every thing is a construct of human beings... so if that makes it BS then skin color, ancestry, nationality, are all "BS" I will tell you why... What makes someone Nigerian vs. Ghanian? For many there is nothing that makes them different, same tribe, same last name, same custom, same language, just the dividing line was drawn through their village... Nationality is a social construct.

African American, you cant get more socially constructed than that.... we were not born in Africa, so what makes us African American, its because we want to have a link to our past... a construct we created that has nothing to do with direct lineage, more of an understanding of our lineage...

Now with race as a concept itself..it does exist. There are definite bone structure differences that make people of different races that have nothing to do with their skin color. There are people of the Caucasoid (white) race that are North African.

My point is..because it has been used in EVIL ways, does not make the concepts mute... there are races, there are ethnicities, there are nationalities, all created by human beings to have something in common or differnent by another....but the differences do exist and because they have been used to enslave, rape and abuse us do not mean they dont exist. As women our sex classification has been used to oppress us, are we not still women?

EXCELLENT POST!

However, I beg to differ that the concept of race was created along the lines of physical characteristics. Maybe VERY early on (with Cro-magnon, homosapien) but not in the present (and I mean human civilization as we know it). Maybe that is used as a JUSTIFICATION for why the concept of race ws created.

As for your analogy, it is a bit more complicated. Yes, women have been oppressed due to their gender. But there are not several classifications as it related to gender. You are either a woman or you are a man. (Transgender folks NOTwithstanding, we are talking natural here). In "race", there are several varying degress and many in-betweens.

[4MYPEOPLE]

Thanks...i just wanted to get some things out there... the topic was great...and yeah, you are probably right, that physical definitions of race was at the beginning, or used as a justification...

but i see you like many have fallen into the trap...Your sex is definite.... your gender is NOT... You are a woman by your parts...your gender "kindness, motherly instinct etc." is not necessarily part of your sex..and it has been those associated varying degrees that have been used to oppress women. They dont say you cant be a lawyer because you have breasts or ovaries, they say because you are not tough enough, or witty enough etc. those relate to gender, not sex. I am saying it is the same with race... we have a specific race, but they have used the ideas associated with our race to oppress us ie. less smart, lazy etc. and those ideas are still used today. Its not that they are afraid of our bone structure, or skin color, (if that was so, they wouldnt have let us breast feed their children) its the associated ideas they have falsly linked with race...same as they have with sex and gender, so just because they use foolish gendered feelings about women, does it mean our sex doesnt exist?

[cleopatrajones]

I also did not read the chit chat posts. There is nothing biological that conotates race. I could have more biological similarity to a White person than I could with another Black person. Race is a social constuction that we as human beings created to classify each other. Nationality is too. However, race and nationality become very REAL in everyday experiences. One of my friends was using a pay phone and some people pulled up beside her as called her a nigger. I'm sure that everyone can tell a story like that, this incident is not unique. But it's just an example of race becoming real. It becomes even more real when you look at health, economic oppotunities, employment, income, etc. I think race is constucted and BS to some extent, but when you look at power and who has it, again race becomes real to me and as long as people of darker skin are without power my loyalty lies with my people.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by 4MYPEOPLE
Thanks...i just wanted to get some things out there... the topic was great...and yeah, you are probably right, that physical definitions of race was at the beginning, or used as a justification...

but i see you like many have fallen into the trap...Your sex is definite.... your gender is NOT... You are a woman by your parts...your gender "kindness, motherly instinct etc." is not necessarily part of your sex..and it has been those associated varying degrees that have been used to oppress women. They dont say you cant be a lawyer because you have breasts or ovaries, they say because you are not tough enough, or witty enough etc. those relate to gender, not sex. I am saying it is the same with race... we have a specific race, but they have used the ideas associated with our race to oppress us ie. less smart, lazy etc. and those ideas are still used today. Its not that they are afraid of our bone structure, or skin color, (if that was so, they wouldnt have let us breast feed their children) its the associated ideas they have falsly linked with race...same as they have with sex and gender, so just because they use foolish gendered feelings about women, does it mean our sex doesnt exist?

Point well taken! Gender and sex are definitely two different and distinct concepts. Women are opressed both ways however. Sex definitely exists, as do the ideas about gender that follow.

I agree with you both that today race has materialized into something more real. However, as a base concept, I do not think it has any merit.

cleopatrajones, you are absolutley right about the power thing, a lot of the debate in Chit Chat was over the power issue.