Asking for help

[Cautious]

I am a long time member of Greekchat, but I do not wish to post under my normal name since there are people on here that go to my school and I wish to keep this as anonamous as possible. I am asking for advice. If anyone knows who I am, or the situation, please PM me. I am taking the last avenue I have abailiable.

Let me start at the beginning of a very strange and long ride:
Last semester, I met a guy, I'll call him Mark. He walked up to me and said he knew me, but I didn't really recognize him. We talked for about 15 min, then I left to meet a friend. When I got home, there was a message on my answering machine saying "hi, this is Mark, I hope you don't mind but I looked up your number..." noramally, it wouldn't bother me, but I don't remember ever giving him my last name. I decided that this could either be sweet that he took the time, or creepy, and I erred on the side of creepy and did not call him.
Fast forward to this semester. I saw him at the bar, but didn't remember where I knew him from. He came up, re-introduced himself, but he seemed like a nice guy, so we talked for a while at the bar, and then back at his place. He asked me if he could call me sometime, and I said sure, even though it was Spring Break the next week and it was one of those casual one time things. I didn't think that he would actually call. When I got back from break, we talked a couple of times and I became less and less interested int alking to him. I then found out a sister had also hooked up with him in the past week. He had used the same lines on her and said the exact same things, which was a little weird. He had also asked if he could call her, to which she said yes, what was the harm. Later she decided this had been a one night thing and didn't really want to talk to him. He tried to call her, but she said that she didn't really want to talk, and she thought that was the end of that.
That weekend, he called me from another City and left a message on my machine asking if I knew anything about the rumors going around about him, and that they had reached a potential employer. I had no idea about anything that was going on, and asking him what he was talking about when he finally reached me. He said that women in my house were saying that he was a stalker and that somehow the people that had been having an interview with that weekend had heard.
This was the first I had heard anything about rumors and I had no idea why a business would have heard them in the first place, both of which I told him. He tried to call my sister when he got home to confront her (why, I still don't know) and asked her if she knew how the rumors had started. She said she didn't know what he was talking about and really didn't want to talk to him anymore. This is the point that he came to me. My sister had just called me saying how weird the conversation had been when he knocked on my door. He confronted me, asking where the rumors had started, and I said that him telling me was the first time I head heard about it. He continued to try to ask me what my sister knew about it saying "she said she didn't know how they started, but when I asked her who said it, she said she didn't know. I know that means she does, and why won't she tell me?" At this point I grew extremely uncomfortable with the situation, and told him that I didn't know what was going on, I didn't know who started the rumor and he should just go to the source if he knew who that was. He said he didn't and thought I would know, which I thought was weird. I told him again that I was uncomfertable that he was confronting me about a subject I obviously knew nothing about and I didn't want him to call me or stop by again. He kept talking, and I repeated myself and he finally left.
Recently a friend of mine joined his fraternity, XYZ, not knoing any of this. Apparently it has grown to be quite an issue within the house, and Mark is already not supposed to go near another house because apparently there was an issue there and she is uncomfertable with him as well. My friend called me aand said that he knew is involved members of my house and did I know any of the story. I went and had a long conversation with him and some of his brothers last night, eventually revealing that I had been one of the women involved. The issue with Mark has become such that women are unwilling to participate in activities with XYZ because they feel so uncomfortable with him. Because of one man's repeated actions, the whole house is getting a bad reputation. (side note: they are recolonizing this year, so this can really be a killing blow to a brand new rep.) Now I have been asked to either sit down with key members of XYZ and explain my side or write a written statement, unsigned of course, to remain anonamous. It is up to me if I do either, both or neither, but I do not believe this man is upholding the ideal of his chapter, and he will be their downfall. But this is not for me to decide. He has told them that they have no evidence so they shouldn't kick him out, and I am their evidence now if I so choose.
My dilema: I would love to be able to help out and tell my story, which would be anonamously. I am afraid that there will be retaliation, either against me or my house by Mark if I do. I know the men I talked to last night are behind me, and after hearing my side of the story, they are more determined than ever that the truth be heard.
One more kink in the line: At one point, I'm pretty sure he told me that he had pledged and initiatied AB chapter but after initiation, decided that the guys were not waht he thought, go out, and became a founding father of XYZ instead. I know this is not allowed by IFC, and I told my friend that I wasn't sure, but that they should look into it just in case.
I know it sounds like I just want to ruin this guys, but that is not my intent. My intent is to do what I can to help out a chapter of friends, knowing it may mean telling a personal story. What do I do now? Do I meet with them, write them a letter, or let them just take my tesimony back to the chapter as heresay? PM me if need be, or if I haven't been clear. I'm sorry this was so long, but this is happening THURS and I am at a loss.

[imsohappythatiama]

Don't do it. If this guy is sketchy, and it sounds like he is, don't entangle yourself in this issue any longer. You are already in deeper than you want to be, sounds like. So DON'T dig yourself in any deeper.

If XYZ is concerned about "Mark" enough to "call you as a witness," so to speak, then they already know that he is a bad seed....and they don't need any "evidence" to kick him out....they can just pull his pin for misconduct, or possibly for having initiated at another IFC organization.

Do not be sucked in by the promise of "anonymity" in your statement... this sort of thing will get back to "Mark" eventually, and for your personal safety, I would not recommend giving him a reason to come around your way any longer.

I admire your concern for XYZ's reputation, but as the past victim of a stalker who intended to do me harm, I beg you to look out for your own health in this situation.

Tell XYZ that you are sorry you can't make any kind of statement for them; that their E-Board will have to make a decision based upon the facts they have gathered, Mark's past history, and their own gut feelings about the matter.

THIS IS NOT YOUR BATTLE TO FIGHT....and there is no sense risking your health to fight someone else's battle.

I would also like to say that if you or any of your sisters are fearful of this "Mark" person, you need to report any activity that even sniffs of stalking to your local and school police. And you need to keep a journal of any and all contact that you may have with Mark--especially any contact that makes you feel threatened or in any way uncomfortable.

This guy may not be a stalker, he may not be dangerous. He may be just a kind of weird, overly intense kid with a penchant for confrontation. But you and your sisters need to play it safe...assume the worst, hope for the best, and plan for them both.

I wish you luck!!!

[amycat412]

I agree 100% with imsohappythatiama.

Let the members of XYZ decide by their own judgement whether "Mark" is fit to be a member or not.

He sounds like a sketchy character who could be potentially dangerous. Maybe not, but it is WAY better to be safe than sorry.

As a past victim of a stalker as well, I too urge you to not be involved with this any further. Walk away and don't look back.

Good luck!
Amy

[Cautious]

Let me clear one thing up. The only reason that I am even being asked to tell my side is that there are some guys that want to keep him, despite his actions, because they believe nothing has happened. The guys I met last night do not want to keep him as a brother, but they need a certain number for the right vote. Mark is a very persuassive speaker, and has said that there is no issue and he did no wrong, despite evidence to the contrary (in my eyes). It is hoped that my story would show the truth and allow the vote that is wanted.

[amycat412]

I still think this could only come back to bite you in the ass. Let the brothers decide amongst themselves.

If you were talking about a PNM for your own house, it would be a different story, but this really doesn't have anything to do with you. Let them decide in their own best interests.

If you speak out against him and he gets in regardless, he will find out, anonymous or not, these things have a way of leaking.

[imsohappythatiama]

Cautious:

Bless your heart for trying to help your friends in XYZ overcome "Mark"'s persuasive speaking abilities. I can see that you are torn up inside because you know your "testimony" might help your friends in XYZ convince their brothers that "Mark" needs to be dismissed.

But honey, this is not your business. Frankly, if this happened in my chapter, we would NEVER rely on the "testimony" of a non-member no matter how much we respected that non-member....simply because internal decisions are internal decisions.

If your friends in XYZ who want "Mark" gone can't get their brothers to trust them enough to see their way of thinking, then your "testimony" isn't going to do it either, I suspect.

And you may place yourself (and your chapter) in harm's way at the same time...and that's simply not worth it.

You said that XYZ is a colony...these issues tend to come up during colonization (in fact, I am reminded of a frighteningly similar situation I was involved in when a national fraternity we'll call PiPiPi recolonized on my campus). Colonies usually survive these issues....or they don't. But that's up to the MEMBERS OF THE COLONY.

Again, you are so sweet and utterly lovely to want to help so much, but I beg you to sit on your hands this time. Wish your XYZ friends the best...and hope they can make a strong enough case to bring their brothers around to their way of thinking. If they can't...well, that's for XYZ to deal with, not you.

Best of luck, and above all remember to be self-protective for the good of yourself and your chapter!!!

[Cautious]

I just had a long talk with my friend and I told himt hat I was still undecided. He said again it was up to me, and it I just wanted to meet witht he president, or part/all of the eboard, or just something written, or not at all, that would be fine. Either way, the brothers that I met are behind me 100% in whatever decision I make. I am very nervous about terms of anonimity, which is the only reason I hesitate. I am pushing the "misconduct unbecoming a brother" but they are under the assumtion that there needs to concrete evidence. One of the brothers has ben witness to some of the actions (while at the other chapter there is issues with) but "Mark" has only said that this guys is against him. In fact, all this brother has done is bring a voice to matters that needed to be addressed. I know that I should just let it sort itself out, and I do not want my chapter involved in any way (I would agree to come as a person who is uncomfertable with his actions, not a member of such and such), but I am reluctant to sit and do nothing. I am a person of action, and tiy to uphold my beliefs no matter what, and I believe that I should help where I can. I told them I would make a decision by late this afternoon.

[LeslieAGD]

The only thing I can say is be careful...I can understand your wanting to help your friends but, like everyone else said, there is a very large chance that it will come back and bite you in the bootie.

[Tom Earp]

Cautious, let them decide for them selves.

If this clown keeps harrasing you file charges with the proper authoritys.

You do not need this as it could very well turn out badly! This is a very serious situation. I do not blame you fro being worried and scared!

It sounds like some of his Brothers already know about him and eventually, he will show his true colors.

We had an associate who was playing that game and No one wanted to talk about it! I finally found out and he was booted out!

His dad knew who I was and came in to raise hell with me! I did not tell him what had transpired but told him the Chapter was the ones who made the final decision!

To your own self be true and be safe!

[Cautious]

Thank you all for your concern, you have no idea how much that means to me right now. I have decided to talk with the President alone, since he must remain neutral, and explain that although I would like to help, I have already told my story to some of the members. I do not want my name brought up, nor my chapter, and I may or may not submit a written account of what happened only to me(and only me). I will state that he makes me uncomfortable and that is why I decided to only speak with him. This way I feel as if I have done a part, but can still remain a little outside of things. I am just glad that is is towards the end of school and I will not have to see "Mark" until next year, if at all.

I have just gotten off the phone with one of the members and they want to do everything in their power to make me feel comfortable, and if not meeting at all is what it takes, then great. The fact alone that I am afraid to talk for my own safety is a huge message in itself, and will suffice, in my humble opinion. I am going to talk with the President still, and 2 of the members from last night to make me feel comfortable, and that's it.

[hbaphi]

Cautious,
I know you are in a difficult situation, but it is one that you should put yourself and the women in your house first. I've had experience with shaddy men like Mark and I had to realize that it's not a greek thing, it's a you thing. Let the brothers handle the situation in accordance to their bylaws. Otherwise, retaliation could become an issue. Keep records of these incidents and encourage other women to do so as well. It may be wise to notify the police, if nothing else to provide further documentation to help your well being.

Sounds like the brothers are looking for your help in a situation they should be able to deal with amongst themselves. You've already experienced enought and they should help you by leaving you out of it. Asking for your help in a dangerous situation is not becoming of them as gentlemen, and your testimony will recieve further negative reaction from their chapter.

I wish you the best of luck and safety in the resolution of this matter.

Lynette

[Kevin]

A few disorganized thoughts on the situation..

As far as the internal aspects of this go, I'm sure that most NIC fraternities are similar in the way they handle issues with their membership.

For one thing you have a colony. Colonies can kick members out 2 ways: President kicks them out or they are voted out. I'm not sure about the first one, it is allowable in a Sigma Nu colony not sure about someone else.

Trials: Colonies (at least Sigma Nu ones [that's where my experience lies, but I'm assuming most are pretty similar]) do not have 'trials'. They are all on the same level as pledges/newmembers/candidates. They are either worthy of becoming initiates or they are out.

XYZ *REALLY* needs to handle their own stuff. At least in my fraternity (and again I'm blindly transferring these rules to XYZ house but again I feel it can't be that different) you RARELY will admit a profane (non initiate) into a trial proceeding.

When it comes right down to it though, XYZ will act or they won't. If they do not stand up and defend women in sororities from their own pledges they aren't of the character that ANYONE would want as far as being founding fathers especially.

It sounds like this guy is a huge liability for them and he's digging his own grave. If this isn't the last nail in the coffin, not to worry -- in my experience they don't stop at one major F*** up.

LHT
Kevin
MT #5
University of Central Oklahoma

[swissmiss04]

I experienced some very scary stalking during my freshman year by this guy who was a foreign student (who was not a member of a GLO). He called incessantly and would find opportunities to be near me and so forth. It didn't really come to a head until the summer when he calls me in my hometown 2 hours away (and at work no less) and said he knew it was my birthday and was going to come see me that weekend. I had never told him where I was from or where I was going to work (or that I was going to work!). And I had never told him my birthday. We were hardly close enough of friends to warrant him driving that far, and it terribly freaked me out. In October is when the weird stuff really came up. He gave me a b'day present (3 mo. late) and it was the perfume that I wore, which was more icing on this increasingly scary cake. He stayed around and stayed around and basically wouldn't let me leave where I was at. My salvation is that one of my friends came in and started talking to us, and finally I said "Hey, let's go". My friend and I got up and left, and when we got down the hall, I told him the situation and remarked that I just wished "he'd leave me the hell alone!" The stalker heard this, and I didn't have nearly as many problems. I also consulted the cops on the situation and they gave me some tips but really didn't *do* anything. My saving grace was that 4 months ago he got a job as a translator 14 hours away from here, and I've heard naught from him since. Cautious, I wish you the best of luck. I know this is a scary sitch for you, but I agree w/ the other GC'ers: let the chapter decide. Don't get involved because it could get back to him who went up against him and it could bite a lot more viciously than any of us would want to think about. In the meantime, please go to both local and campus police about the issue, tell them the whole story, and get your friends involved. Have a phone code in case dude shows up. There is safety in numbers.

[theta sig agd]

I would advise, if this guy makes you sooo nervous and uncomfortable then get a restraining order. and advise the others to do the same. This should get his attention and may make the other members of his org take a second look. In my opinion you need to protect yourself. What good is an anonyimous testamony? Eventually I would think that would need a name to go with the testamony to make it valid so I would watch out..Good luck!!

[33girl]

Mark is a psycho. But the guys in XYZ need to grow balls and kick him out on their own. As everyone has said this is not your decision to make. I've seen guys kicked out of fraternities for a hell of a lot less. And believe me, if there are 2 sororities on campus not wanting to participate with them they will do investigating within the ranks to find out why.