KA recants, sarcasm gets you booted!

Pike4Life · #1 03-14-2002, 03:05 PM

Hey GC'ers, you may have heard about the KA case at Tennessee, well I just read this in this week's issue of the Chronicle of Higher Education:

TALL TALES, BIG TROUBLE
Even Bluto Blutarsky, the boorish fraternity pledgemaster of Animal House fame, could have learned a lesson or two from the Kappa Alpha Order at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville.
In February, when The Daily Beacon, the student newspaper, asked Patrick Diener, the chapter's president, why the fraternity's national headquarters had suspended the club, Mr. Diener suggested that it might have been the weekly tradition of hiring a stripper. Or maybe the frequent cockfights. Most likely, though, it was the chapter's practice of "liquoring up" local homeless men and inciting them to fight one another.
Mr. Diener later retracted his statements, saying he had concocted them out of frustration and a desire to satirize the real allegations: serving alcohol a chapter meetings and hiring a stripper once.
But the damage was done, the story as picked up by the national news media, and headquarters was not happy. The organization and the university are now considering dissolving the chapter, which was founded in 1887.
"The university and my organization have taken a public-relations black ey," says Larry Wise, the Kappa Alpha Order's national president.
W. Timothy Rogers, the campus's vice provost for student affairs, says the First Amendment prevents the university from taking action against Mr. Diener. But the charges against the fraternity are fair game.
"They did not do the things they told the Beacon," he says, but "they did indeed have a stripper at one meeting, and they did have alcohol."

Can you believe it! I guess sarcasm can kill you!

ilovemyglo · #2 03-14-2002, 03:08 PM

If people didn't know what he said was a joke, they have no sense of humor.... get real!

FuzzieAlum · #3 03-14-2002, 03:12 PM

I don't know about that! With all the bad press Greek life gets, and the readiness of people to believe the worst about us, that man was a fool at best to make a statement like that to the press!

Besides, sarcasm is only funny if your audience realizes you are being sarcastic, and that obviously wasn't the case here. Even here of GC people were talking about, "Is this true?"

I think they deserved what they got.

Kapsig1 · #4 03-14-2002, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
I don't know about that! With all the bad press Greek life gets, and the readiness of people to believe the worst about us, that man was a fool at best to make a statement like that to the press!

Besides, sarcasm is only funny if your audience realizes you are being sarcastic, and that obviously wasn't the case here. Even here of GC people were talking about, "Is this true?"

I think they deserved what they got.

I think the thing that bothers me most is the quote from the VP of student affairs. Unless the university has a dry campus rule and PROOF that they "had alcohol", the chapter is guilty of nothing besides poor judgement in choosing a spokesman....and perhaps some poor choices in entertainment. The real crime - giving the university a black eye.

DeltAlum · #5 03-14-2002, 06:14 PM

The real "crime" is stupidity.

If they did anything they said they did originally...that's stupid.

The comments made to the media...that's stupid.

Embarassing your chapter...that's stupid.

Embarassing your Nationals -- or not thinking they would hear about this...that's stupid.

Breaking the rules and the law...that's stupid.

Expecting anything from a university administration other than what they got...do I really have to go there?

In fact, this whole out of control situation...is stupid!

Now, they have to get smart and figure out a way to save their collective butts...

Honeykiss1974 · #6 03-14-2002, 06:14 PM

His comments were like yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theater. Unfortunately, his chapter has to deal with the consequences all because this one guy doesn't know how to discern a SERIOUS situation from a LIGHTHEARTED situation. Why add fuel to an alreay blazing fire? In life you have to take some things seriously and some things with a grain of salt. In today's times, greek issues are taken more seriously.

Kapsig1 · #7 03-14-2002, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
The real "crime" is stupidity.

If they did anything they said they did originally...that's stupid.

The comments made to the media...that's stupid.

Embarassing your chapter...that's stupid.

Embarassing your Nationals -- or not thinking they would hear about this...that's stupid.

Breaking the rules and the law...that's stupid.

Expecting anything from a university administration other than what they got...do I really have to go there?

In fact, this whole out of control situation...is stupid!

Now, they have to get smart and figure out a way to save their collective butts...

One man's stupidity is another's poor judgement. IF, and that is a HUGE if based on the info in the post; they did indeed break the rules, then that should be dealt with. My experience with a KA chapter that was dealt with MUCH more harshly (admitted by the president of the university) BECAUSE the story made the regional and national news.

The only thing that kept KA from fighting it was the fact that the members had received death threats.

The punishment, if any, should be based on actual behavior, not on the "black eye" that is received as a result of the media exposure. Should the president be disciplined, hell yes. Should the charter be yanked? That depends on how the university has handled simlar cases of misconduct WITHOUT regard to the media hype.

FuzzieAlum · #8 03-14-2002, 06:44 PM

Speech IS behavior. If I go out there and say "KA did this stupid/illegal thing" that they didn't do, no one should hold their members responsible. If they say it, that's a different matter.

Kapsig1 · #9 03-14-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
Speech IS behavior. If I go out there and say "KA did this stupid/illegal thing" that they didn't do, no one should hold their members responsible. If they say it, that's a different matter.

Yes, speech is behavior - but, in an educational setting (or any other) you should still be required to prove the behavior. Even the VP of student affairs has that part right.

Again - stupid, yes. Punish the stupid one.

Brad

FuzzieAlum · #10 03-14-2002, 07:32 PM

Well, I agree, the one brother is the one responsible for saying the stupid comments, not the whole chapter. But it sounds as if their charter was yanked for other violations, not his stupid comments. After all, their charter was suspended BEFORE he made those comments.

And since Nationals, unlike many campuses, don't enjoy shutting down their chapters, I would suspect they were pretty darn sure that their reasons for suspending it were good.

DeltAlum · #11 03-14-2002, 10:28 PM

I don't want anyone to misunderstand. I hate to see any Charter yanked. It does sound like rules and laws were broken, though.

But I concur, the real stupidity was on the part of the president with the runaway mouth.

Hootie · #12 03-15-2002, 02:28 AM

what do you expect? You scream wolf and the whole town will come a runnin'! And with the spotlight seemingly negative towards Greeks, national news attention is likely!
I cannot speak from experience, however I have a feeling that a lot of National Headquarters take things like this so seriously that they are willing to shut down chapters for fear of being critisized by the media.
Whether or not the men of that chapter did something illegal or not, their reputation has probably been damaged beyond repair, and their NH probably feels its best to cut ties. It's sad but a reality.

I'd hate to be in the shoes of the spokesperson. Can you imagine how many people are probably ticked off at him? I'd sure hate to have to carry the title of "The man responsible for closing our chapter down" around!

Hootie

DeltAlum · #13 03-15-2002, 03:11 AM

What some of us are overlooking here is that, if I understand the story correctly, this president admitted serving alcohol at chapter functions in clear violation of established rules and laws.

At the end of the day, how can the "blame" for whatever consequences the chapter faces belong to anyone but the president and the chapter.

Sometimes it is fair to take issue with the media or a university administration, but in this case the chapter has admitted it's guilt for everyone to see.

The president clearly never heard the old expression, "Be sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth in gear."

The1calledTKE · #14 03-15-2002, 09:31 AM

If he put a disclaimer with the article there would have been no problems.

Kapsig1 · #15 03-15-2002, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
What some of us are overlooking here is that, if I understand the story correctly, this president admitted serving alcohol at chapter functions in clear violation of established rules and laws.

At the end of the day, how can the "blame" for whatever consequences the chapter faces belong to anyone but the president and the chapter.

Sometimes it is fair to take issue with the media or a university administration, but in this case the chapter has admitted it's guilt for everyone to see.

The president clearly never heard the old expression, "Be sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth in gear."

I understnand this; if they had alcohol present on a dry campus like UT, then they should be sanctioned similarly to those other chapters that have done so.....not more so, because it made headllines.