Controlling an unruly but popular brother

[MenaceKiller]

I have a rather odd situation to resolve.

I'm admittedly a shoo-in for President of my chapter next fall. I've recently won the highest honor of "Brother of the Year" in our chapter, was Vice President while running 6 other committees by myself, and generally showed that I am a capable leader to assume Presidency next fall. More than half of the active brothers have taken me aside and queried if I was interested in the job and voiced their support for me, and unless I completely reject the nominations coming up soon, I pretty much will get voted in.

However... the big uncertainty comes in with who will be my Vice President. Normally, there is one obvious choice each for Prez and VP, or possibly down the wire to just two, but this year, there are FOUR, count 'em, FOUR eligible brothers for the job.

The four differ quite a bit in their leadership style and personalities, but one big problem -- the one that IS most likely to win, with his combination of popularity and age/wisdom, is also the only brother I CANNOT get to listen to me or take orders from me. He constantly flaunts his disregard for authority, and his excuse is that "if he can't have fun, then no one else should either."

I've already talked to him about my dilemma, and he's rather smug that he'll have an opportunity to boss other people around. I told him about his attitude problems and lack of respect, and he promises to straighten up "when he's on the job". Sound like complete bull to any of the rest of you?

This is the same brother that likes to encourage other brothers to be nasty and awful to pledges. He defends his actions by stating that he didn't do the actions, not his fault, that sort of thing.

How can I resolve this?!

-MK

[The1calledTKE]

Paint a picture of how the chapter would be with him as VP to your brothers and what could happen as result. That should wake enough people up to keep him from winning.

[James]

You could do that .. . but once you start negative campaigning, which requires subtle or not so subtle character assassination it means that:

1. It will spread, and other people will start doing it, if only out of self defense.

2. It will not stop once it starts. And it can really hurt your chapter.

So instead go on positive offensive. Evaluate the other candidates and see which one would be both the best VP and has the best chance of winning. Throw your support around that candidate. If you are really the most likliest to win, that support might make all the difference.

Also, prepare a mental criteria in your mind of what a good VP should be, so that in converation you can say that your candidate has those qualities in abundance.

Be careful not to criticize the others, even in private, it gets around. So if someone asks comparison related questions say: "I am not going to say anything negative about any Brothers. This is the criteria of what would make the best VP. I have looked at everyone running, and this is the person who I think has the greatest amount of those qualities. Now you decide by how good you want the chapter to be!"

On a cautionary note: Becareful that you don't want this guy to be VP because you feel a little threatened by him or have a personality conflict. Just because someone doesn't take us that seriously, or disagrees with us, doesn't make them bad at a job. And ultimately the position is a job.

I know that I have had conflicts with some of our alum officers, and I don't see them beating down my doors to offer me an alum officer position for later. Even though the offer has been made to other members of the chapter that were much less involved and knowledgable.

Good luck.

Originally posted by zntke711
Paint a picture of how the chapter would be with him as VP to your brothers and what could happen as result. That should wake enough people up to keep him from winning.

[The1calledTKE]

Sometimes negative is the only thing that work. I give my fraters (brothers) more respect than assuming they will all revert to negative campaining after seeing one instance of it.

[James]

Hmmm . . . you give your brothers more respect than to think they would do what they see you do?

Because they know its wrong . . .?

Originally posted by zntke711
Sometimes negative is the only thing that work. I give my fraters (brothers) more respect than assuming they will all revert to negative campaining after seeing one instance of it.

[LeslieAGD]

I would agree with James and vocally support the brother that you feel would make the best VP.

[The1calledTKE]

Originally posted by James
Hmmm . . . you give your brothers more respect than to think they would do what they see you do?

Because they know its wrong . . .?

Like I said sometimes its necessary. My brothers and I are big enough to deal with the issues and still be best friends after its over with. I feel sorry for any chapter that runs with negativity after they see it once .If they can't deal with it even though it makes sence and is important for the betterment of the fraternity what will their chapter amount to in the future. Possitivity toward the more qualified memebers may back fire because popularity might still win out.

[Hootie]

Does anyone else support or know about this mischevious brother's actions? Does anyone else fear the future of your chapter if he were in office?

I like Jame's suggestion about supporting the right person for the job and only speaking positively. However it IS your chapter's future at stake and with that comes the responsibility to speak out when necessary.

I don't know how your fraternity runs its elections, but perhaps each candidate should be spoken about in turn and leave the room until the conversation is done? Then things could be out in the open, but understood to be in confidentiality!

Just an idea.

Hootie

[Kevin]

Perhaps if he IS elected your chapter has a process for removal of inneffective officers? You should set specific expectations for your officers. If they do not live up to them they should be asked to step down to be replaced by one of the other 3 guys in this case or be voted out of office.

An individual that is so dishonorable has no place in office. I commend you on recognizing that. As James and others on here have said, negative campaigning may work in the short-term but in the long-term will only bring you grief.

Maybe you'll get lucky and your brother will change when he fills the weight of the responsability (I've seen it happen).

Best of luck!

Kevin
MT 5
University of Central Oklahoma

[Pike4Life]

I agree with ktsnake...but you have to make sure that everyone is aware of the "impeachment" policy from the chapter by-laws ahead of time.

You never know how someone will react to a position of power until they are actually placed in one. This brother may in fact continue his internally destructive behavior while in office, OR he may begin to feel a little more responsible and find a stronger sense of "ownership" in the chapter if he is one of the guys making the decisions on how the chapter is to operate.

We had a similar situation in my chapter back in my day. But our situation was that we had TWO guys that were elected to Exec. that we were unsure of, but because of their popularity, it was thought they would make good leaders. OF the two, the results were split. One made a complete 180-degree turn around and became one of the most responsible, dedicated and respected leaders in the chapter and totally disproved everyone's doubts in his ability and completely shed his "f-up" personality and reputation. The other guy, on the other hand, simply continued his inappropriate behavior and actually caused even more grief for the chapter because he thought he had more power than he had...he was all talk and no action, and in several occasions actually went out of his way to compromise and tear down actions and programs that the rest of the Exec. had worked to implement.

In the second case, not enought guys knew about the procedures to remove ineffective and internally destructive officers; so the chapter was basically at his mercy for a while. Luckily, he ended up getting into some trouble with his parents and was forced to leave school for a semester. It wasn't until this time that the chapter was able to replace him with a more effective and cooperative leader.

I guess basically, my advice is this: give the guy a chance to prove you wrong; give him expected guidelines and certain perameters that you as President will expect your Exec. to act within. If he doesn't react well or change his ways, make sure that everyone knows the judicial process to remove an ineffective officer...and make sure that process is carried out correctly!

[MenaceKiller]

I'm attempting a mix of the responses here.

My ideal candidate is my big brother, Kyle. He is less strict than I am, and more passive, but ultimately a more passionate brother. Unfortunately, he's gotten into some negative publicity with the older members of the fraternity (picking arguments that left him looking bad) and the newer members are unsure about his competency.

I only hope I can convince them all during elections that Kyle puts the fraternity first over selfish wants like, "No way in hell I'm gonna wake up on Saturday at 7am for a Philanthropy event! I've got 2 days off a week and I deserve my rest on them!" that the popular negative brother announces during the meetings at times. Of course, no wonder we have so little turnout on our community service events!

As for negative campaigning... I am expressing my concerns to other brothers in the form of private queries about who best does what job, and who is most reliable, and who cares the most about this fraternity. While all their responses agree that the negative brother isn't winning any honor contests, he's still popular for his rebellious attitude. I guess he brings out the primal animal instincts in them.

-MK

[33girl]

Originally posted by MenaceKiller
I only hope I can convince them all during elections that Kyle puts the fraternity first over selfish wants like, "No way in hell I'm gonna wake up on Saturday at 7am for a Philanthropy event! I've got 2 days off a week and I deserve my rest on them!" that the popular negative brother announces during the meetings at times. Of course, no wonder we have so little turnout on our community service events!

uhhh, not to seem selfish, but there's no way in hell I'd wake up on Saturday at 7 for a philanthropic event, either. There's no sense in planning things if the majority of the chapter will not do it. It is great to be passionate and gung ho, but if you are so much so that it makes everyone else look bad, you won't win any points that way either.

I don't know if I would push too hard for Kyle, ESPECIALLY since he is your big bro - that can look really bad, like one family is trying to run the fraternity. I'm not sure how your group is structured, but there are sometimes positions that actually have more power/responsibility than VP.

And Pike4Life is right - sometimes people do a ONE EIGHTY as soon as they get into office. We elected one girl as president, and let me tell you, we elected one thing and got another. As soon as she had that responsibility she freaked out and started making all sorts of bad decisions and turning dictator. I love her, but I was a member of that nominating committee, and if I could go back and redo things, she would NOT be my pick.

[MenaceKiller]

Sorry for the long post.

Here's a recent PM I received regarding his recent behavior on our own private online forums.

dude, RELAX....life doesnt have to be so serious all the time.....if i am not allowed to make funny smart ass comments on here, then i hereby request that you ban ALL smart ass funny comments, including jokes!

My response:

Dude, there's a time and place for joking, and I implore you to find the right positive opportunities for them.

For example, "General Topics" is perfect for letting you express your greek angst, but when you go to "Upcoming Fraternity Events" and derail a serious topic that had a point, that's hurting the entire purpose of this board as an extension of our meetings and communications center.

I'm trying to be as flexible as I can with everyone, and tolerating a lot of off topic stuff because this is so new to everyone.

I'm asking you to take a lead in being a positive example to all of our brothers. The Xi group thinks you're a rebellious brother who contributes only when your personal gain is involved. The other brothers should know better than to think of you like that, but I'm not sure how they're seeing you now.

Thank you for taking the time to read through what I just said. I hope it makes some sense, and I hope that you can understand where I am in all this.

That's the kind of behavior I'm dealing with.

Some other "famous" quotes...

well, call me a square then i guess!! i get TWO days a week to sleep in, and lately those days have been dissappearing too!! time to fight back! DAMN THE MAN!

$125 to whack balls and eat frank and beans...hmmm...balls...frank and beans...any connection there if people wanna whack balls, i'm sure we can set up a easier ball whacking competition! anyone volunteer to have their balls whacked? I'm out, since i plan on having kids someday!

Dude, worry not, i LIKE the idea of eating while staring at hooters....as long as they are not [the pledge]'s fake hooters....friday nites at #rd St are ALWAYS fun...this will make it more so...shall we make [the pledge] dance for money? Shall we make him get a dude's phone number?

--------------------------------------------------

As for waking up before 7am on a philanthropy event day, keep in mind that all events are voted in with specific dates and times, and voting to approve means no excuse not to go to an event. Especially when we need a minimum # of people at an event to get credit for it and then a lot of people wuss out because someone was convincing them they wouldn't be fined for missing such a crazy event. GRRRRR.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by MenaceKiller


That's the kind of behavior I'm dealing with.

Some other "famous" quotes...

well, call me a square then i guess!! i get TWO days a week to sleep in, and lately those days have been dissappearing too!! time to fight back! DAMN THE MAN!

OK - well . . . if he feels this way, and you 'vote' on every event and its time, then he's campaigning for votes against such activities. Isn't that the only way to make actual change? It's not necessarily the right way - but what makes 7am philanthropies a better way? My point is, I think here you're neglecting his opinion simply b/c of how he phrases it. Early service events = crappy turnout, simple enough, and I hate to say it but his campaigning to alter this is probably better for your chapter as a whole. Think about it objectively - if you plan on being president, you'll have to start doing that more, b/c remember: the chair is neutral.

Originally posted by MenaceKiller
$125 to whack balls and eat frank and beans...hmmm...balls...frank and beans...any connection there if people wanna whack balls, i'm sure we can set up a easier ball whacking competition! anyone volunteer to have their balls whacked? I'm out, since i plan on having kids someday!

Uhhh . . . things worse than this are said in every chapter meeting of every fraternity nationwide. I don't see how this deters his leadership - there are different ways to be a leader, as many as you can imagine, and all can be effective.

Originally posted by MenaceKiller
Dude, worry not, i LIKE the idea of eating while staring at hooters....as long as they are not [the pledge]'s fake hooters....friday nites at #rd St are ALWAYS fun...this will make it more so...shall we make [the pledge] dance for money? Shall we make him get a dude's phone number?

OK - well, here he may cross the line into inappropriate conduct with pledges, but let's be honest, comments like this happen all the time, and don't necessarily reflect poorly on someone's ability to perform a task. These are the points you should hit harder, not joking around on a chapter message board - have him be a role model, and show why he should want to be, not just what people think of him or the like.

I think it boils down to this - if this guy's going to get elected by a majority vote in your chapter, and you think he sucks, well . . . who's out of touch with whom?

Perhaps you're out of touch with the desires of the chapter, and that's why they follow this guy. That's the alternative to your "he shouldn't lead the flock astray!" train of thought, and I think the actual scenario lies in the middle between these two views. Perhaps you should try to center yourself, as well as the man who will most likely be elected VP - obviously he has support, enough to pass vote and be elected.

As far as your reply to his PM - while well-worded, I think it's a bit over the top to expect all comments and input to be on-topic in any scenario, whether it be online, in the chapter hall, or in an informal committee meeting. I'd say you're missing the forest for the trees here - if good ideas are still coming out, then there can be room for some joking in the normal flow of conversation - that's how some people communicate.

I feel like you're shutting yourself down too much by drawing your lines so thickly - opening yourself will ultimately make you a better president.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

His PMs don't sound that bad to me. He actually has valid points about a 7am event. I wouldn't go either. As for voting on these events, it can't be a majority rule type of vote. If more than a third of brothers don't want to attend, there is a problem with the event. If you think that he will be a bad VP, follow the advice of James and throw your support behind someone else. If you go negative, he might still get elected and then you'll have to work with him anyway but you have this negative stuff to get over.
It seems to me that it is a personality conflict. Not everyone in a fraternity will be best friends or of like minds or ideas which is actually a good thing. If he is elected, you will need to adjust your thinking about him. In your original post you wrote that he "is also the only brother I CANNOT get to listen to me or take orders from me." Perhaps, it was a poor selection of words on your part, but let me tell you, no one ever ordered me in my sorority. As a president, you need to inspire in order to lead not order people.