Rebelious pledges

pikeks109 · #1 04-10-2001, 01:07 PM

As of all of you know that spring semester is near to the end. Well here is the problem. Many of our pledges have rebelious attitudes, they are mostly sophmores and juniors. Most of them have very little respect for the younger brothers like they don't have to listen to them. They have an attitude like they know that pledging lasts for 8 weeks or so and they know that they cannot be held farther then the end of school. These pledges have failed almost every test and hardly show up to any fraternity events. We've sat them down numerous times and told them that many brothers are upset with them. Has this ever happend to any of you? Any suggestion of how we can correct this problem?

pbear19 · #2 04-10-2001, 01:15 PM

Here's my two cents, although it may sound harsh.

Do not baby them!!!!! If you have pledges who are not getting the work done now, and you decide to baby them or allow it because you want or need pledges, I promise you will regret it in the future. If they have not been initiated, there is no rule that says they must be. If they aren't doing the job, they don't deserve to be initiated. If they have been initiated, use whatever methods that you have to make sure they know they will be kicked out if there are no changes.

Again, this may sound harsh, but I know from experience. There really isn't much you can do to get them motivated other than to make it clear that your organization has no room for people who can't do what's expected of them. Do not be pushovers about it, and DO NOT decide to take them or bend the rules out of any feelings of guilt. Your organization as a whole is too important.

Just think of the greater good, not just this one class. If you're strict, they might just clean up their acts, too. Maybe.

sigmagrrl · #3 04-10-2001, 01:18 PM

Well, how strict can they be? I am asking this in all sincerity...What can you do with a new member class that does not fulfill their requirements? How can you let them go without it coming back to haunt you as "hazing"???

DGPhoney · #4 04-10-2001, 01:29 PM

hey all, I agree with Pbear don't baby them ! Let them know the deal, and that it takes commitment and all that jazz. We have had the problem once or twice, and when and sometimes it does come down to it, they are dropped from our system, no hard feelings but we let them know, that we use our time and we expect the same. I hope things get better for you guys.
One and Always Much Love
DGPhoney~

LXA1048 · #5 04-10-2001, 01:47 PM

The answer is simple. Find the worst out of all of them, the one that you probally know will not make a good brother (sounds like you have many to choose from) and get rid of them. The Black Ball will show that you are serious and that you do not take your fraternity lightly. Hopefully they will get the idea and straighten their act up. If not wipe out the whole class. There is no place for apathy in the greek community.

I know this is rather harsh, but it is important. If they don't participate then the classes after them won't participate and your chapter will crash. It really ticks me off when people try all semester to get into a fraternity and then they act like they don't care once they are in.

Do what is best for your chapter and the greek community. We don't need more bad images of greeks around at any school.

I hope this helps,

Clint

PenguinTrax · #6 04-10-2001, 01:57 PM

You've tried being nice...time to drag out the big guns.

Haul 'em up in front of judicial if need be. Tell them that they knew going into their pledgeship that certain responsibilities were expected of them and they haven't met those responsibilities. Give them 1 or 2 weeks to shape up their act, pass their tests and attend all required activities in the next 2 weeks. Assign an older brother to work with this select group and include exercises in brotherly respect and teamwork in their classes.

If they don't shape up - pull their pins and wish them well. I wouldn't cry much more over it - had these boys (using the term on purpose) really felt the brotherhood and commitment needed to contribute to your chapter, they would have done so already. Dead weight brings down the entire chapter - not just the pledge class.

Next year, you'll know a little more when approaching potential members and be better equipped to explain the commitment needed and why the entire Fraternity benefits from it.

dzrose93 · #7 04-10-2001, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sigmagrrl:
Well, how strict can they be? I am asking this in all sincerity...What can you do with a new member class that does not fulfill their requirements? How can you let them go without it coming back to haunt you as "hazing"???

Getting rid of a member who hasn't met the minimum requirements set in order to be initiated is not hazing --just like severing an initiate's membership for repeatedly not making grades or not paying dues is not hazing. The two are not related in the least little bit. (Sorry if it sounds like I'm yelling, sigmagrrl. No offense intended.

I'm just trying to get the point across.)

Basically what I'm saying is this: Every organization has set requirements that the members must abide by in order to be considered in "good standing" and, thus, able to participate in chapter events. Expecting them to live up to those requirements is not a hazing issue. It's like kicking a college player off the team for not showing up to practice. Or not allowing a college student to pass a course because they didn't show up for class on a regular basis.

You don't want someone in your chapter who obviously doesn't care if they are there or not. Weeding out those people is not only a Greek organization's right, it's also their responsibility to insure that the chapter remains vital.

I have to agree with pbear19. If these guys don't have respect for the fraternity by now, then it's crazy to think that they'll gain respect once they get initiated. Which means they'll probably do nothing but cause potential problems down the road. It would be different if they were studying their pledge books and making an actual attempt to learn about the fraternity, and attending your chapter's organized events. But it doesn't seem like they are trying at all in this case. And there is no reason in the world why they should be initiated at this point. Get rid of them now.

It does sound harsh, but having an apathetic bunch of guys as your brothers is the only other alternative. Kick them out now or deal with their poor attitudes later. It's up to you. Good luck!

**dzrose93 getting off the soapbox**

DeltAlum · #8 04-10-2001, 02:01 PM

I absolutely agree with pbear and others. If you let this pledge class run wild it will come back to haunt you in the end.

If they haven't passed their tests, etc. -- DON'T INITIATE THEM!!

Concentrate on Fall rush and try to make up the numbers you may lose.

It isn't harsh, it's preservation of the Chapter. If these guys won't participate in their pledge (OK, prospective member or whatever) period, there's no way they will take their responsibilities as actives seriously.

Get rid of them before you build a bigger ongoing problem.

DeltAlum

PS I assume you can document the problems including failing test scores, missed meetings etc. That's important.

Lil_G · #9 04-10-2001, 02:06 PM

Good advice Clint...they're gone, remove all the bad apples. This isn't 10 strikes and your out, take their pledge pins & manuals and tell them they are no longer pledges in your fraternity.

matthewg · #10 04-10-2001, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LXA1048:
The answer is simple. Find the worst out of all of them, the one that you probally know will not make a good brother (sounds like you have many to choose from) and get rid of them. The Black Ball will show that you are serious and that you do not take your fraternity lightly. Hopefully they will get the idea and straighten their act up. If not wipe out the whole class. There is no place for apathy in the greek community.

I know this is rather harsh, but it is important. If they don't participate then the classes after them won't participate and your chapter will crash. It really ticks me off when people try all semester to get into a fraternity and then they act like they don't care once they are in.

Do what is best for your chapter and the greek community. We don't need more bad images of greeks around at any school.

I hope this helps,

Clint

I totally agree with Clint, pbear and the others - kick the worst ones out, and if that doesn't help, all of the troublemakers. I have seen one of my chapters almost come apart over a similar situation!

Plus, it will have the positive effect that it strengthens the bond between the rest of you guys and will give you the reputation of being consequent about your ideals on campus, which shouldn't be bad at all!
All the best, Matt

pikeks109 · #11 04-10-2001, 04:34 PM

Well first of all I want to thank all of you guys for your help. So far we've got rid of their biggest trouble maker. As of all of you know the quote "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link" Well we've black balled one of their pledge brother and we thought that would deliever the message. But is their any other alternative than throwing them out? I know I may seem as a pushover I just want to make sure I'm exercising all of my options b4 I throw anyone out

KnowledgeEternal · #12 04-10-2001, 05:20 PM

If they don't care about coming to the meetings and respecting their brothers don't you think they would turn on your fratr once you kick them out? What if they are the type to try and put out secrets once they don't get their way? Just something to think about.

UNFSigmaChi · #13 04-10-2001, 05:23 PM

Well im glad to hear you rolled the main trouble maker out of the group. But you still have a problem even if they behave...that is that they don't know anything about your fraternity or what it means. They wouldn't appreciate initiation when they get there. I don't know if you heard of the term bull pledge but basically down here in FL we use it if a pledge doesn't make grades or is ready to be initiated..we hold them over to the following semester's pledge class. We are on a 8 week pledge program here by university rules(its retarted but not much you can do...last year we went from max 16 week pledgeship to a max of 8). Anyways, we don't make them wear their pin or carry their pledge manuel but they have to go through pledgeship all over again by going to pledge class etc. Thats one loop-hole your chapter should look at for these guys. Hope this helps

shadokat · #14 04-10-2001, 05:28 PM

Take the troublemaker to standards/judicial board and have a hearing. Tell him he and his pledge brothers that they have X amount of time to fulfill their requirements. If they don't, you will not hesitate to black ball those who don't and not initiate them. At least then you give them the idea that you're serious, without losing them until absolutely necessary.

lifesaver · #15 04-10-2001, 05:58 PM

I have to join the choir on this one. Back in Fall ’96 our pledge dad thought new member education was watching porn at his apartment. Needless to say they didn’t learn jack, and didn’t take ANYTHING seriously, then or after. We had 19 pledges that semester and the next, only 7 made grades, and by 1 year out, only 3 were even enrolled in the university. But did we learn our lesson? No. The next fall (’97) we did better, but never let the new members know who was in charge, and the way the game was to be played. They ran completely all over us. It was so bad, that to this day, they are considered the worst pledges we ever had, but that was our fault for letting them get away with it. I even had one of the pledges girlfriends tell me after initiation that Steve (her bfriend) had told her he wished we’d taken a harder line with them. They were crappy brothers. Not just cocky, but insolent as well. After that we totally cracked the whip. We went all out. And it has totally worked - accountability and the like. Our pledging/initiating ratio is now at NIC & university recommended levels, our new member grades have dramatically improved, and our new members can taste the reality of the situation in the air, “We don’t need you that bad.” ITS NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE.

Another tip I got from another chapter on campus is a “dedication” interview conducted halfway through the semester. We have never used it, but its nice to have there if need be. From the way it was explained to me is you have the brothers sit in the upper back of one of the larger auditorium lecture halls, where the lights are dimmed, and bring the pledges in one at a time and conduct an interview with them. The set up is meant to be somewhat intimidating to underscore the seriousness of the occasion. Different brothers then ask them questions like, ‘what have you done for the org, what would you do differently, what would you change, what have you learned, yada yada yada.” It seems to work pretty well for the org that does it. They are one of the stronger houses on campus.

Just my 2 bits and change