damasa-YOU STARTED IT!

[justamom]

HA! Got your attention. The last thread damasa started brought up another controversal issue, the death penalty. One day I was searching for a line from a poem I couldn't recall and came upon this site. This left me feeling so weird, the music, the poetry, the events surrounding this case. Take a look, be sure to turn up the music. The line was Iron bars do not a prison make...

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...2+author&hl=en

If you click "home" you can read what happened

[valkyrie]

I'll keep quiet for now, but here's a link to some very interesting articles about the death penalty in Illinois; they're long, but worth reading --

http://chicagotribune.com/news/speci...wsspecials-hed

[damasa]

Ah, good topic. Hrm, before I came to college I was totaly against the death penalty, but after coming to college and opening my mind to many more things, I also opened my mind to the death penalty. I won't comment any further until I hear the views and opinions of others on the great GC.

d

[Hootie]

I cannot justify saying I'm antiabortion (in most cases) yet predominately pro death penalty... I just feel that in most cases people who commit hanous crimes of rage have been handed their fate. Although we can sentence them to death, I feel that God will punish their souls worse than we could.

Besides... in most instances the way the prisoner is executed is far more humane than the way their victims died. Not to mention most buy time with numerous appeals.

I try to consider myself a humanitarian, yet something bothers me about paying money to keep a horrible person alive in a prision cell where he can further educate himself and have some small luxuries.

This is just my opinion.

[SuperSister]

I personally do not believe in the death penalty. . . i realise that many people disagree with me and that's cool too. i don't intend to convert anyone to my point of view, and (not to sound snotty here ) i don't really care. everyone has their own point of view and mine stems from my personal system of ethics, i can only speak for myself and i belive that i will have to answer for myself when i die. i believe that there is a God and that he will sit in judgement. it is his job on that day of judegement to decide what will happen to these people who have committed heinous crimes. i am not God and therefore do not have the right to make the decision to take another human life. in order for me to sit on a jury where i might have to put someone to death is in violation of my personal ethics and in my mind makes me just as bad as they are. as i said earlier i view this as my own personal ethics system and don't expect anyone else to follow it.

[SparkliiQTMTSU]

I presonally dont believe in the death penalty either....I belive that if a person kills someone or something as bad as that then why should their life jsut end??? that just basically puts them out of their misery and all. I believe that they should rot in jail and have to suffer. but thats just my opinion.

Nichole

[Lil_G]

Beccaria, one of the greatest criminological thinkers of our time stated that it's greater justice for a person to spend a life of misery than to end their sorrows. I don't believe in the death penalty for several reasons; however, if a freind or family member sufferred a horrendous killing i'm sure my opinion would change.

[KABillyMac]

I'm sure everyone here can guess what my stance on the death penalty is. But heres my justification. I wish I knew in dollars how much it costs to sustain one person in a federal or state maximum security prison. Lets use a hypothetical number such as $60 a day. Say the person goes in at age 25, and dies of old age at 75. At 365 days a year, and 50 years, thats 18250 days. At $60 a day, no inflation or facility cost added in, thats $1,095,000. It would cost well over that to provide basic ammenities for that one person for the natural course of his life. So basically, the way I figure it, I wouldnt want any red damn cent of my tax dollars supporting some baby killing, child molesting, terrorist piece of shit just because its justification for what they did. Screw it. Fry em. Use the money for homeless shelters or something. Not that a portion of my tax dollars arent going to a bunch of crack heads out on the streets at the first of the month, but thats a diffrent thread.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by KABillyMac
I wish I knew in dollars how much it costs to sustain one person in a federal or state maximum security prison.

According to a study (done by, admittedly, a pro-death penalty organization) in 1996, the average cost for the lifetime of a prisoner living from age 25 to age 75 (male) is around $2 million.

(Note - I'll try to find a cite later, too much stuff to do for now)

Now . . . that said, the death penalty still doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense in its current form - with court costs etc, the price of keeping them alive is about the same (possibly cheaper - again i'll look for cites). Add to that the fact that the death penalty is not an adequate crime-prevention technique, and also, of course, the possibility of the system being wrong - killing the wrong people etc . . .

Now - THAT said, I'm firmly pro-death penalty. I figure we should just cut the bullshit, don't pretend like you're doing people a favor either way. The issue is punishment, not deterring crime or whatever, and personally I'd prefer to eliminate these people from our society, although I understand perfectly well the issues and hypocrisy associated with this viewpoint. If you're convicted by a jury of your peers of a crime that society deems worthy of capital punishment - that's it, that's all I need. Of course, the current system needs a total overhaul, but that's a different issue entirely.

God is the ultimate judge, sure - but if you want to make this argument extensible to the next level, that eliminates all sorts of elements of the criminal justice system. We're not judging a person's soul - just his or her guilt in a worldly, temporal issue.

[KABillyMac]

And lets say over the course of that 50 years, at least every state in the union has at least 5 people per year convicted and sentanced to the "life in prison, no parole" sentence. So thats 250 people per year. Say in the span of one year, at $1,095,000 cost per person for 50 years. That adds up to $273,750,000. Just for those 250 people for the next 50 years. Compount that by 250 per year, 50 years, $1,095,000 per 50 year cost per person, thats $13,687,500,000, per the 12500 people that will come into the prison system over that 50 years. 13 billion sounds like a whole lot of clams to me.

I actually heard from an old history class that it cost more to execute a person then keep them in prison for life, but hey whatever.
I am personally opposed to the death penalty. I just dont see the point in it. In my opinion it doesnt make things better for any side. It doesnt bring the victim back and it takes another's life. Sometimes that's even what they want,and why give them the satisfaction? When that person is executed there will be someone else to do whatever they did. Its suppose to deter, but it seems like crime just gets worst. People dont care, and it seems it doesnt scare people that much to tell them they will die. Id rather see that person suffer, then give them the easy way out.
I also dont think anyone should take anyone else's life, no matter what. In a way it is revenge. It makes you feel good for a couple of days, but you'll always grieve for the victim.

[skip101]

Originally posted by UMgirl
I actually heard from an old history class that it cost more to execute a person then keep them in prison for life, but hey whatever.
I am personally opposed to the death penalty. I just dont see the point in it. In my opinion it doesnt make things better for any side. It doesnt bring the victim back and it takes another's life. Sometimes that's even what they want,and why give them the satisfaction? When that person is executed there will be someone else to do whatever they did. Its suppose to deter, but it seems like crime just gets worst. People dont care, and it seems it doesnt scare people that much to tell them they will die. Id rather see that person suffer, then give them the easy way out.
I also dont think anyone should take anyone else's life, no matter what. In a way it is revenge. It makes you feel good for a couple of days, but you'll always grieve for the victim.

If they would actually use the death penalty it would deter. Once a criminal is put to death they wont be committing any more crimes. Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders.

ha ha detering the dead, punny

[AlphaGamDiva]

ah, another fun topic

i see both sides...but, as i am sure some of you guessed, i am for the death penalty. yes, you will always grieve for the loss of the victim, but at the same time, you have the satisfaction that the person cannot do it to anyone else. you're saving someone else from the same kind of grief. and the idea that these people will really suffer in prison is, i think, kinda off. these ppl are put in locked facilities, yes, but they are also in great facilities. i mean, tv, air conditioning...hey, that's better than a lot of ppl who haven't done anything wrong. ya know? i say, it's better to punish them here on earth so the family can experience some kind of closure to the event and to send 'em on to the Big Guy for Him to deal with in the most proper way. if they are innocent, then they're still in a better place than here...and if they are guilty, then they are where they should be in the first place. does that make sense?

Monica

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
these ppl are put in locked facilities, yes, but they are also in great facilities. i mean, tv, air conditioning...hey, that's better than a lot of ppl who haven't done anything wrong. ya know? i say, it's better to punish them here on earth so the family can experience some kind of closure to the event and to send 'em on to the Big Guy for Him to deal with in the most proper way. if they are innocent, then they're still in a better place than here...and if they are guilty, then they are where they should be in the first place. does that make sense?
Monica

Great facilities? Have you ever seen the inside of a jail? Have you ever been raped, or beaten, or threatened constantly by gangs? There was just a case in Illinois where a guy was finally let out of jail after spending, I think, 15 years there for a crime he did not commit. He talked about how at night it was really hard, because if he slept with his head toward the outside of his cell, people would walk by and throw stuff like acid at him (no, I don't know how or why), but if he kept his head toward the back of the cell, the mice would come by and nibble on him. If you think that counts as great facilities, then I suggest that you go spend some time there and then tell me that you think they're great facilities. This guy was innocent, just like you.

I cannot believe that you could say, "if they are innocent, then they're still in a better place than here." Are you serious? First of all, who are you to say what is a "better place" for someone else, or to even presume that you know what happens after death. If you think it's a better place, then why would you care if someone killed your entire family, since, after all, they would be in a better place. My guess is that this is all very easy for you to say, considering that you are probably someone at low risk of ever being falsely convicted and sentenced to death.

If you are truly pro death penalty, read the articles I linked to earlier in this thread, which highlight just some of the rampant abuse present in the criminal justice system. It seems that in Illinois someone is set free after being on death row almost monthly because he did not commit the crime.

I really meant to stay out of this, but I just couldn't after reading your comments.