Trans Women; how do you feel?

[dreamerhope]

So this is nit to ask about rather or not a trans woman can join . The question I want to ask here is this... to thoes of you in a Sorority; if a trans woman wanted to rush.... how would you feel about it and why?

This really means a lot toe. Thank you for your time.

[DrPhil]

We now need you to proofread and edit your posts. GCers will become snarky if you don't proofread and edit. Collage students are held to higher standards.

Also, some people may get snarky if you bombard us with a bunch of threads and posts about this topic in one week. People will want you to eventually breathe easy and either find something else to post about or become a silent observer for a minute.

I support transgender rights. What that entails depends on the context and details. As with every group dynamic and every minority group, you can challenge prejudice and believe in equal access to opportunities without considering every form of exclusion to be "discrimination." My sorority has hundreds of thousands of members. This includes lesbians, bisexuals, and perhaps some transgendered women. We don't check to see whether someone is biologically or by birth female. What we are concerned with as a collective is whether someone is a woman who is committed to sisterhood and public service. However, if a transgendered woman became a member and then felt the need to boast and shout it from the rooftop for whatever reason, that would annoy some of the members, perhaps including the chapter that may have known she was transgendered. It might be considered a potential slippery slope that could blur the lines of membership demographics. Quite frankly my experiences are that many transgendered people are fulfilling their gender aspirations but don't look like the gender they aspire--even post-operation. Of course there are transgendered people who have not identified themselves as transgendered. As for the people who have, it is often not difficult to identify the gender transition. That matters in environments where people are willing to accept some gender nonconformity (I challenge gender norms) and aspects of androgyny but they quickly draw the line when they want a sense of normality.

[Sen's Revenge]

I am chiming in because me and some fraternity brothers discussed this not too long ago.

When it comes to transmen, although it would obviously depend on the character qualifications of the person, our general consensus was that we would vote affirmatively on a transman if he presented/passed as a masculine man.

We are probably in the minority opinion of our fraternity. We guess that many members would insist upon only "natural born men."

But I was indeed surprised at the number of my friends who would vote affirmatively on a transman joining our fraternity.

I want to reiterate that we felt that passability and "permanent identification" was important to us. We didn't want people who presented as "gender queer" - we want people who believe they are MEN, function as men, live as men, and pass as men. That probably makes us femmephobes. I am okay with that.

I am curious to see what women feel about transwomen potentially joining their sororities and why.

[amIblue?]

Can't say it better than DrPhil said it. Dreamerhope, you need to take a break. One thread is sufficient for this topic. I support transgender rights, but judging from your posts in the WIFLSRN thread, I think you may have more issues to deal with than finding a sorority. Take care of you so that you can be a member worthy of her letters should a group extend you a bid.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I couldn't care less if a woman was born that way or identifies that way or whatever. If she's a good candidate for membership, she's a good candidate for membership. I'd be open to genderqueer members as well, as people who identify as such face the world without male privilege, and therefore relate to many of the reasons sororities were founded in the first place.

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Collage students are held to higher standards.

Are they, now?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by StealthMode

Are they, now?

Especially in collage towns. We respect the arts.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I couldn't care less if a woman was born that way or identifies that way or whatever. If she's a good candidate for membership, she's a good candidate for membership. I'd be open to genderqueer members as well, as people who identify as such face the world without male privilege, and therefore relate to many of the reasons sororities were founded in the first place.

Is this 100% the case or are there instances where SOME people who identify as genderqueer have benefitted from male privilege? This gets into what genderqueer means and whether it involves an ability to adopt a dual identity when necessary. On a non-genderqueer comparison, there are (biological male-to-woman) transgendered people who adopt modes of femininity (based on gender norms, expectations, general trends, and stereotypes) but are quick to tell men they can "remember the biological male" and whoop a man's ass if necessary.

ETA: Depending on the circumstances, this could lead to other modes of adapting to certain environments and benefitting from male privilege.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Is this 100% the case or are there instances where SOME people who identify as genderqueer have benefitted from male privilege? This gets into what genderqueer means and whether it involves an ability to adopt a dual identity when necessary. On a non-genderqueer comparison, there are (biological male-to-woman) transgendered people who adopt modes of femininity (based on gender norms and stereotypes) but are quick to tell men they can "remember the biological male" and whoop a man's ass if necessary.

Yup, fair, I made a sweeping generalization based on limited experience with a few genderqueer friends. I guess my point is that I don't think someone has to identify as all female all of the time to be a fit for a sorority.

[DrPhil]

I understand your generalization.

They don't have to identify as a biological female but the point is for them to identify as a woman to join a sorority. What "woman" means will vary because some of us do not subscribe to certain gender norms and gender expectations. But, the woman part is the purpose.

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Collage students are held to higher standards.

Are they, now?

[dreamerhope]

I enjoyed reading what you all had to say. To the parts about proof reading, I think this will be my last post until I get a new computer.

But I would like to say... There is no male privilege involved with being a trans woman. I will post what I mean when I get my computer.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Yup, fair, I made a sweeping generalization based on limited experience with a few genderqueer friends. I guess my point is that I don't think someone has to identify as all female all of the time to be a fit for a sorority.

If by definition the term sorority means 'a fraternal organization for women', and a trans-gendered male to female does not "feel" womanly all the time, then the org is no longer a sorority.


For me, the best part of being in a sorority is that you are part of a sisterhood with all women. Not a sisterhood where a few transgendered women are female 90% of the time, and male 10%.


What it means to "feel" like a woman can be very subjective, even for people born female. But to be a woman (female) based on the biological definition, will not change. Even with surgery, biologically based on sex chromosomes, the male to female can still be considered male, and vice versa for the female to male.

For me, the transgendered male to female will have to always be a woman, and not turn it off when (he)she feels like it.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

If by definition the term sorority means 'a fraternal organization for women', and a trans-gendered male to female does not "feel" womanly all the time, then the org is no longer a sorority.


For me, the best part of being in a sorority is that you are part of a sisterhood with all women. Not a sisterhood where a few transgendered women are female 90% of the time, and male 10%.


What it means to "feel" like a woman can be very subjective, even for people born female. But to be a woman (female) based on the biological definition, will not change. Even with surgery, biologically based on sex chromosomes, the male to female can still be considered male, and vice versa for the female to male.

For me, the transgendered male to female will have to always be a woman, and not turn it off when (he)she feels like it.

You are assuming that everyone identifies as either male or female. That simply isn't the case.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by StealthMode

Are they, now?

You do get the joke, right?