Might sound weird, but if I am being completely honest...

[socalmarci]

... I have to admit that I kind of like the idea of hazing.

Now, that's not to say that I like all forms of hazing; but I do believe there can be some useful applications of hazing. Personally, I like the idea of being put through something possibly uncomfortable or unpleasant to earn something I consider of value. I mean take military boot camp for example, some of the sh!t that takes place is considered hazing; but it's not without purpose. I think that a fraternity or sorority who puts new members through similar types of rigor could build some strong characteristics and bonding in their initiates; so long as there is a true and legitimate higher purpose.

Ultimately, many hazing rituals can be viewed as symbolic references to life experiences. Sometimes life 'hits' you, and if you're a punk then life is going to F you up, but if you can learn to take those 'hits' and still continue on with what you've set out to accomplish there's value in that.

I would like to have a set of fairly hardcore rituals and exercises specifically geared toward preparing initiates for tough conditions that may arise during their college tenure and early stages of their professional careers, even their personal lives and relationships; all that are fun, stressful, painful, tiring, emotional, embarrassing, motivating, and inspiring. Maybe some people will get hurt, maybe some people will want to drop-out, maybe some people will have emotional breakdowns, but in the end their brothers are 100% committed to everyone making it through and being better because of it, and they will love each other for it. Is that so wrong? Am I just crazy? Is this just some fantasy I have conjured up in my head? I don't think so, I think there can be 'responsible hazing'.

PS - I'm not greek (yet), but I plan on pledging when I transfer from CC.

[Psi U MC Vito]

While I agree that the definitions of hazing can be kind of ridiculous, I don't agree with your logic. If there is something that has a risk of causing some sort of harm to the person, it is wrong, simple as that. The military trains you to kill somebody who is trying to kill you, a fraternity tries to train you to be a better citizen and person. They shouldn't be using the same techniques.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by socalmarci

... I have to admit that I kind of like the idea of hazing.

Now, that's not to say that I like all forms of hazing; but I do believe there can be some useful applications of hazing. Personally, I like the idea of being put through something possibly uncomfortable or unpleasant to earn something I consider of value. I mean take military boot camp for example, some of the sh!t that takes place is considered hazing; but it's not without purpose. I think that a fraternity or sorority who puts new members through similar types of rigor could build some strong characteristics and bonding in their initiates; so long as there is a true and legitimate higher purpose.

Ultimately, many hazing rituals can be viewed as symbolic references to life experiences. Sometimes life 'hits' you, and if you're a punk then life is going to F you up, but if you can learn to take those 'hits' and still continue on with what you've set out to accomplish there's value in that.

I would like to have a set of fairly hardcore rituals and exercises specifically geared toward preparing initiates for tough conditions that may arise during their college tenure and early stages of their professional careers, even their personal lives and relationships; all that are fun, stressful, painful, tiring, emotional, embarrassing, motivating, and inspiring. Maybe some people will get hurt, maybe some people will want to drop-out, maybe some people will have emotional breakdowns, but in the end their brothers are 100% committed to everyone making it through and being better because of it, and they will love each other for it. Is that so wrong? Am I just crazy? Is this just some fantasy I have conjured up in my head? I don't think so, I think there can be 'responsible hazing'.

PS - I'm not greek (yet), but I plan on pledging when I transfer from CC.

It is not a wise idea to hand over the mental health of a group of 17-19 year old students to a group of 18-23 year old students and expect them to "educate" them in ways that are psychologically sound. Military training has lots of oversight. Drill sergeants are older members of the military who are trained to be drill sergeants and who have other drill sergeants and officers looking over their shoulders. That isn't going to happen on a college campus. Furthermore, we're not really looking for the type of conformity or obedience in our members that the military needs in theirs. We want leaders, not foot soldiers.

If you allow even mild hazing, some one is going to take it too far, and a student will get hurt or die. It's a terrible idea.

[Old_Row]

Originally Posted by socalmarci

... I have to admit that I kind of like the idea of hazing.

Now, that's not to say that I like all forms of hazing; but I do believe there can be some useful applications of hazing. Personally, I like the idea of being put through something possibly uncomfortable or unpleasant to earn something I consider of value. I mean take military boot camp for example, some of the sh!t that takes place is considered hazing; but it's not without purpose. I think that a fraternity or sorority who puts new members through similar types of rigor could build some strong characteristics and bonding in their initiates; so long as there is a true and legitimate higher purpose.

Ultimately, many hazing rituals can be viewed as symbolic references to life experiences. Sometimes life 'hits' you, and if you're a punk then life is going to F you up, but if you can learn to take those 'hits' and still continue on with what you've set out to accomplish there's value in that.

I would like to have a set of fairly hardcore rituals and exercises specifically geared toward preparing initiates for tough conditions that may arise during their college tenure and early stages of their professional careers, even their personal lives and relationships; all that are fun, stressful, painful, tiring, emotional, embarrassing, motivating, and inspiring. Maybe some people will get hurt, maybe some people will want to drop-out, maybe some people will have emotional breakdowns, but in the end their brothers are 100% committed to everyone making it through and being better because of it, and they will love each other for it. Is that so wrong? Am I just crazy? Is this just some fantasy I have conjured up in my head? I don't think so, I think there can be 'responsible hazing'.

PS - I'm not greek (yet), but I plan on pledging when I transfer from CC.

I think you should wait until you are at a university and have a bid in your hand before you try to decide what is right for an organization you will never understand unless you are a part of it.

[misscherrypie]

Just saying.... in my opinion hazing is NOT necessary to bond a pledge class together. At all.

[Old_Row]

Originally Posted by misscherrypie

Just saying.... in my opinion hazing is NOT necessary to bond a pledge class together. At all.

Why would a coed social club haze anyway? If you let a member join your club but refuse to let them join another activity in the club and only keep one member status because of their sex that kind of sounds like hazing to me.

[misscherrypie]

Old Row, our sorority (and chapter) does NOT haze in any way. I think that you were misunderstanding the situation and thinking that the social club and the sorority chapter were one entity. Which they are not.

[Old_Row]

Originally Posted by misscherrypie

Old Row, our sorority (and chapter) does NOT haze in any way. I think that you were misunderstanding the situation and thinking that the social club and the sorority chapter were one entity. Which they are not.

That's what I am not understanding. You created the coed social club because your school wouldn't recognize you as a sorority, but if a guy joins your club then he will be denied joining Beta Sigma Phi which was really the reason for you started the club in the first place. Telling some members they can't be part of another related organization that others are welcome in only because of their sex is like hazing because it makes different membership statuses.

[adpiucf]

Dear socalmarci,

Please don't join a fraternity or sorority. We don't want members with this mentality. If you're hellbent on hazing and being hazed, you might enjoy ROTC or the military. Hazing does not prepare anyone for a professional career or membership in a single-gender organization. It does violate your university honor code, fraternity policies, and jeopardizes the organization and the well-being of our valued members.

In closing, please don't call us. We won't call you. Best of luck in your life and sadistic view of the world.

Best wishes for a more mature outlook as you matriculate at a four-year university,
The Greek Community

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by socalmarci

... I have to admit that I kind of like the idea of hazing.

Now, that's not to say that I like all forms of hazing; but I do believe there can be some useful applications of hazing. Personally, I like the idea of being put through something possibly uncomfortable or unpleasant to earn something I consider of value. I mean take military boot camp for example, some of the sh!t that takes place is considered hazing; but it's not without purpose. I think that a fraternity or sorority who puts new members through similar types of rigor could build some strong characteristics and bonding in their initiates; so long as there is a true and legitimate higher purpose.

Ultimately, many hazing rituals can be viewed as symbolic references to life experiences. Sometimes life 'hits' you, and if you're a punk then life is going to F you up, but if you can learn to take those 'hits' and still continue on with what you've set out to accomplish there's value in that.

I would like to have a set of fairly hardcore rituals and exercises specifically geared toward preparing initiates for tough conditions that may arise during their college tenure and early stages of their professional careers, even their personal lives and relationships; all that are fun, stressful, painful, tiring, emotional, embarrassing, motivating, and inspiring. Maybe some people will get hurt, maybe some people will want to drop-out, maybe some people will have emotional breakdowns, but in the end their brothers are 100% committed to everyone making it through and being better because of it, and they will love each other for it. Is that so wrong? Am I just crazy? Is this just some fantasy I have conjured up in my head? I don't think so, I think there can be 'responsible hazing'.

PS - I'm not greek (yet), but I plan on pledging when I transfer from CC.

Mother of God, you're an idiot. Symbolic references for life experiences? You have no grip on reality, do you? The COLLEGE EXPERIENCE ITSELF is what will help prepare you for the rest of your life. Do you think non-greeks are incapable of coping with the tough shit life will push because they were never hazed? Studying alone and excelling in your classes alone can be fun, stressful, painful, tiring, emotional, embarrassing, motivating and inspiring. You don't need hazing to experience those things in college! If someone gets hurt or has an emotional breakdown due to HAZING, that is NOT FUCKING COOL. AT ALL. EVER. EVER. One person getting hurt is not worth everyone else having a "fun" hazing experience. 100% committed to "making it through" and then loving each other at the end of it all? Are you kidding me? When some groups try to justify hazing as a way to "weed out the weak?" Are you a masochist? What unicorn piss rainbow do you live under? You aren't greek, so yes, yes this is some crazy fantasy you have made up in your head.

[DubaiSis]

I would like to see a clarification of hazing that is a little more realistic than "anything you would require a pledge to do that you wouldn't require an active to do is hazing" but I get the sneaking suspicion that the OP thinks things like sleep deprivation or things that would cause fear for ones' safety, whether real or not, is ok. And it's not.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by socalmarci

Am I just crazy? Is this just some fantasy I have conjured up in my head? I don't think so, I think there can be 'responsible hazing'.

I don't know if you're crazy, but you seem to be very poorly informed and immature. While some definitions of what constitutes hazing can go overboard, there is no such thing as responsible hazing. Responsibility and hazing are mutually exclusive, especially when you're talking about pain, embarrassment and the possibility that some people might get hurt. Period.

I completely get the desire to mark life passages. I get the desire to feel like you've accomplished something when time for initiation finally comes. I get the idea of preparing in symbolic ways to face challenges and take on greater responsibility. These things can be accomplished, and accomplished much more effectively, without hazing.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I would like to see a clarification of hazing that is a little more realistic than "anything you would require a pledge to do that you wouldn't require an active to do is hazing" but I get the sneaking suspicion that the OP thinks things like sleep deprivation or things that would cause fear for ones' safety, whether real or not, is ok. And it's not.

Yep. It angers me when people think "pledging" and "hazing" are synonymous. In the OP's case though, it doesn't seem like she wants pledges to do things for the sake of learning about the brothers or sisters, the organization, and the campus/national Greek community (which is what pledgeship should be). It sounds like she wants to do them just to do them.

[AZTheta]

33, I got the impression the OP was a male b/c of the use of the term "their brothers". +1 to your response.

[clemsongirl]

I can only speak from my own personal experience, but OP, you do NOT want to be hazed. For the org I was pledging (non-NPC but still greek-lettered) I was fine with learning national history, chapter history, and district history, doing service events and jumping through all sorts of non-hazing hoops, but the moment my class was hazed I lost all trust and respect for the group and the people in it. It destroyed any desire I had to join a group that would treat me in that manner, and no amount of coaxing by my class could get me to stay with it. Being hazed made me realize that I wanted nothing to do with a group who would treat me that poorly, and that it wasn't worth it.

It's not worth it. A social club with some letters on it is not worth your physical and emotional well-being and dignity. And considering you have never been through it before, I would advise you to keep your opinion to yourself from now on.