Obama backs gay marriage

[Leslie Anne]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47365293.../#.T6tGJ-tYuSo

President Obama has announced that he is now in favor of gay marriage.

We've had this discussion on here before but it's been a while. Personally, I'm thrilled. I believe in all Americans being treated equally. I'm surprised that Obama chose now to make this announcement. I expected him to wait until after the election.


Thoughts?

[lovespink88]

http://whenobamaendorsed.tumblr.com/

That is all.

[AGDee]

It's about damn time.

Of course, a conservative friend of mine posted this on Facebook:
Over 30 states (North Carolina being the most recent) have now spoken - they want to protect marriage because it is the best environment for raising kids. Yet our president wants to redefine marriage, presidents don't define marriage, God defines marriage. God has spoken - several thousand years back - we cannot redefine what God has defined. Francis Schaffer said it well when he said, God's word is True Truth. Praise God that Billy Graham spoke on this important issue and now the voters of 30 plus states have spoken as well. Traditional Marriage!!! Another reason to vote Obama out this year. Conservaties get involved and vote and tell 5 friends to do the same!!!

I usually try not to respond to these kinds of things, but couldn't help myself this time...

The problem is, religious marriage and legal marriage are two completely separate things. Lots of people are legally married by a justice of the peace. Legal marriage doesn't dictate religious marriage rules. Should religion dictate legal marriage laws? No church is forced to marry any couple now and wouldn't be forced to marry homosexuals either. That's up to the church. Let the legal stuff be up to law, religious stuff be up to the church. Some people choose to incorporate both into one thing, but not everybody does. I know that for you, marriage was a deeply religious thing, but for a lot of people, it has nothing to do with religion, it only has to do with legal rights that people obtain when legally married. My personal opinion is that nothing should be against the law unless it infringes on someone else's civil rights and, using that as a measure, any legal adult should be able to marry any other legal adult. It's simply not my business to tell anybody else how to live if they aren't harming anybody.

I'm fully expecting to get blasted for that comment.

[DubaiSis]

AGDee, you rock. I have said for awhile that if they want to call what my husband and I have (Justice of the Peace marriage on a golf course), Meatloaf Sandwich, instead of a marriage, I don't care, but anyone should then be able to have a Meatloaf Sandwich. The fact that ministers are given the authority to perform a small part of the legal process to me is completely beside the point. And there are a lot of church rules about weddings. I could care less if the Catholic church, for instance, won't marry gay people. That's their prerogative. They wouldn't marry us because I refused to have my husband go through the annulment procedures. So I got the wedding I wanted instead of the one my mother wanted. But back to the point, a lot of Americans REALLY don't get what separation of church and state means, and this argument hits that smack on the head.

I'm sorry for North Carolina, but as a native Iowan, I say fine. It makes Iowa a LOT of money every year performing gay marriages.

[AOT767]

A "friend" posted something on facebook about how she didn't think it was right, marriage is a vow between a couple and God, etc etc. I asked her how she felt about atheists being allowed to marry, then, or people of other religions who don't worship her God, and never got a response (presumably because she has none, because she's been on facebook since then and hasn't acknowledged my comment, nor anyone else's that said similar things to mine).

Personally, I truly don't see a problem with it. If two people love each other and want to get married, what's the big deal? Nobody's forcing anyone else to marry someone of the same sex. I've found, at least within my circle, people who generally disagree with it disagree for religious reasons and I actually had one person say that any 'good practicing Christian' wouldn't endorse such an abomination. I also find that those same people continue to break other "Christian-ly" ways, such as having sex before marriage, consuming alcohol to the point of intoxication, etc. If it's against your religion, that's fine, but not everybody has the same beliefs as you, so it's not fair to restrict others freedoms because you 'think its icky'.

Anyway, I'm very excited about this and hope that it becomes legal very, very soon in all states. It shouldn't be about legislating "morality," it should be (and, in my opinion, is) about equality for all humans, regardless of who they want to marry.

[knight_shadow]

I'm still waiting on the outcry against divorces and second+ marriages.

Sanctity of the institution and whatnot.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I'm still waiting on the outcry against divorces and second+ marriages.

Sanctity of the institution and whatnot.

Exactly. And what about quickie Vegas weddings?

My concern with many of the state elections to ban gay marriage is that I've encountered many folks who thought that legalizing gay marriage would force their priest/pastor/whatever to perform them in their church. There's a lot of (sometimes willful) misinformation or ignorance about how such a law would affect the rest of us.

[DubaiSis]

I worked for the Kerry presidential campaign years ago, and people literally put fliers on car windows while people were in church that said John Kerry wants to kill your babies. Yes you have to be pretty dumb to believe that, but if you believe it because nobody would have said that if it weren't true, then it really would be your obligation to protect the world from this horrible man. The same things happen over and over again, with abortion, gay rights, women's rights (forced unisex bathrooms anyone?). It's crazy what people will believe.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I'm still waiting on the outcry against divorces and second+ marriages.

Sanctity of the institution and whatnot.

This is probably, in part, why I'm so against judgement on this topic. I'm twice divorced and, given my experiences, have a hard time supporting marriage at all because I'm not sure I see any real advantages to it. I'm defensive about my failed marriages and I admit that.

This friend's husband has chimed in, in response to my post and I have replied. I am treading very carefully because I know I'm not going to change this person's mind about anything.

Him: in THIS country, the law gives reasonable expectation of tolerance. However, if our rights we love so dear truly come from God and not the government, there there is a real problem when the country continues to take the "worldly" approach to keep going down the slippery slope of immorality. There will come a time when this country will have progressed so far away from God's law (and freedom) that our nation will no longer exist. No society has ever lasted very long after they lost sight of God's moral compass. Our nation, founded on Godly principals of freedom, has been lucky to last this long. History proves this.

With that said, my stance is to love all as God tells us to. Marriage, through church or law is sacred. People live outside the law all the time. This includes man's law (which naturally comes from God - and man defiles it). I do not believe marriage or legal unions between man/man or woman/woman is right or justified. This includes legal status for things such as insurance benefits, etc. If 2 men live together in that relationship, and one wants the other to be the beneficiary, I guess that's something we can accept. BUT, I do not believe they should be allowed to "marry" or union together.

My response: The longest lasting civilization ever was Ancient Egypt and they were pagans, so I'm not convinced that history proves that no society has lasted very long without God's moral compass. If our country's laws are going to be based on the Bible, then we need to add a whole lot of them because there are a lot of people wearing cotton/polyester blends, cutting their hair, and eating pork and many other things that the Bible calls an abomination. God gave man free will and if you interpret the Bible literally, the very first people used their free will and ignored God's rules. Each and every one of us makes choices every day which of His laws we're going to follow and that's between us and Him on a very personal level. It isn't anybody else's business. Personally, I work hard to live by two of His laws: Judge not and Love thy neighbor. It is up to Him to decide what is right and wrong, not me, not our government and I'm only going to worry about the relationship that He and I have, not anybody else. It is His job to worry about everybody else.


This is a guy who doesn't believe in dinosaurs and fights hard for gun rights and I know my arguments won't go anywhere. I don't know why I bother...

[knight_shadow]

Great response, Dee.

I, too, have been in a few "debates" with individuals on this subject (both for and against, with hetero and homosexual people on both sides). While we may not agree on everything, I'm always open to discourse.

However, when I see things like this...

Originally Posted by AGDee

This includes legal status for things such as insurance benefits, etc. If 2 men live together in that relationship, and one wants the other to be the beneficiary, I guess that's something we can accept. BUT, I do not believe they should be allowed to "marry" or union together.

...I shut off completely. I find it amazing that people think it's OK for 2 wo/men to live together and "live in sin," but the minute they push for a legal (not necessarily religious) union, it's going against God's plan.

I'm also glad you brought up the fabric, hair cutting, pork, etc. When I've brought up the same things, I've been told that "times have changed, so our interpretations of things have to change" -- all things EXCEPT homosexuality. That's another thing that will quickly make me end a debate and walk away lol I also chuckle when folks flip-flop with the term ("I don't care if you get a union. Just don't call it marriage!" becomes "I don't want you to have the same rights" when civil unions are brought to the table).

My favorite quote on the subject (from Wanda Sykes): If you don't believe in same-sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. Simple as that.

[AOII Angel]

I love you, Dee. That was a well thought out, measured response. I would have just called him an idiot!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It's about damn time.

Of course, a conservative friend of mine posted this on Facebook:
Over 30 states (North Carolina being the most recent) have now spoken - they want to protect marriage because it is the best environment for raising kids. Yet our president wants to redefine marriage, presidents don't define marriage, God defines marriage. God has spoken - several thousand years back - we cannot redefine what God has defined. Francis Schaffer said it well when he said, God's word is True Truth. Praise God that Billy Graham spoke on this important issue and now the voters of 30 plus states have spoken as well. Traditional Marriage!!! Another reason to vote Obama out this year. Conservaties get involved and vote and tell 5 friends to do the same!!!

You could also remind them that there are places in the Bible where marriage is defined as a man and a woman and a woman and a woman and a concubine and a woman and a woman. And sometimes a brother.

[Alumiyum]

I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed. He should have addressed the topic years ago, not waited until Biden tested the waters for him. It makes me sad that people are thanking him for saying something he should have said 3 years ago when he was all about change. Not to mention, his words hold no water (like most politicians) as he rarely follows through on them.

No matter who we elect, I don't think that same sex marriage will be legalized in the next four years. NC's decision just reinforced that. In the meantime, I'll continue to unfollow on Twitter and defriend on FB since these issues really let you know who thinks what. I'm Alabama born and bred and have plenty of friends who don't want to see same sex marriage legalized. I genuinely don't get it, but I'm used to it and can respect their right to an opinion when it isn't aggressive or offensive. The others I just ignore.

Here's my take: Sanctity of marriage? Kim Kardashian. Britney Spears. Historical context...marriage used to be a matter of political and financial advantages (and still is, sometimes). Why can't committed couples have a legal document that gives them the same rights Kim and that guy had? If churches don't want to hold religious marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, that's fine. But LEGALLY this country supports equality and the separation of church and state. And lastly, I was brought up in a Christian household in Alabama and went to church every Sunday until I left for college. It's amazing to me how much of what Jesus said gets ignored...namely the second half of The Great Commandment. I'm not religious, but I learned my bible verses dutifully, and personally I think Jesus had the right idea...just be A NICE PERSON. TO EVERYONE.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47365293.../#.T6tGJ-tYuSo

President Obama has announced that he is now in favor of gay marriage.

We've had this discussion on here before but it's been a while. Personally, I'm thrilled. I believe in all Americans being treated equally. I'm surprised that Obama chose now to make this announcement. I expected him to wait until after the election.


Thoughts?

Being "personally"(referring to Obama-not you) for something doesn't change the legislation and that is what needs to happen.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Well to be fare, he spent the first two years of his campaign fighting for the the Healthcare reform and DADT Repeal. And really, Marriage Equality is not something either the President or Congress has say in. That being said, the Court needs to stop avoiding the issue and decide a case involving Marriage Equality.