College applications back in the old days

[TriDeltaSallie]

I've been following Girlie's AGD College Search thread and was going to leave a comment, but thought it might be an interesting separate discussion.

The application numbers at colleges just boggles my mind. And the costs and loan amounts. Applying to 10-14 colleges? Hard to fathom.

I graduated from HS in the mid 80's and anyone who applied to more than 4 or 5 schools was considered weird.

I applied to one school that I had pretty much decided on in the fall of my senior year and was quickly accepted. (I had a 4.0 GPA and 30 ACT. Didn't bother taking SAT and it wasn't required for most schools back then.) During spring break of my senior year I changed my mind and applied to Michigan State. Got my acceptance letter to the Honors College a couple weeks later.

My how times have changed...

And I find the financial numbers being discussed simply mind boggling. After Tri Delta and MSU scholarships, my degree cost me and my parents around $6500 out of pocket - for five years. I changed my major twice and was in no hurry to graduate. I loved college and there was a lot I wanted to do on campus and with Tri Delta.

Any other old folks want to share their stories?

[Football Fan]

While some small liberal arts colleges have closed in the past few years major highly selective universities have dropped their admit rates.

Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford had admit rates below 10% for the class that entered last fall. Some other admit rates from across the country for the class of 2015 were:

Julliard 8%

Carnegie-Mellon
30.4 %

Univ. of Virginia
32.3%

Univ. of Southern California
23%

Georgia Tech
47.5%

Notre Dame
24.2%

UCLA
25.3%

Boston College
27.9%

For the class that has just applied some universities have already announced application numbers and estimated admit rates.

Again, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford all had admit rates below 10%. USC, Vanderbilt and Northwestern will have admit rates in the high teens. USC is using the common application for the first time and has had 45,000 applications for the freshmen class.

Private colleges now have "Cost of Attendance" numbers that are rising each year, with some exceptions. It is not unusual for certain colleges to have COA at $55,000 per year. Due to generous merit scholarships or financial aid policies it may cost a family less to send a student to a private university than to a flagship state university. Certain ivies provide huge financial aid packages for students who have very low family incomes and few or no financial assets. Some colleges now post a financial aid calculator on their websites. A parent can use this tool to receive a rough estimate of the aid package.

I have seen posted on a college admissions/information website students who applied to 19 colleges. The most I have seen was 22 colleges! Some high schools now refuse to send out more than a limited number of transcripts. There are stories of high schools where the students have a bulletin board where they post letters of regret from selective colleges.
Despite all this application worry, most students do not apply to 15 colleges and the vast majority of U.S. students attend college within 250 miles of their hometown.

The NYTimes has a weekly article called "The Choice". It has many statistics and lists the applicant numbers from last year for about 100 colleges/universities. The articles follow a few students through the application process and posts their final choices.

[Sciencewoman]

I only applied to the University of Michigan. Found out early in the fall, and that was that.

[TriDeltaSallie]

I know I'll probably be in the minority in this, but the entire higher education situation is just ridiculous. And I fully realize how much I've benefited from higher education.

Higher ed is hopefully the next big bubble to pop. Young kids today are being saddle with ridiculous amounts of college debt that stay with them to the grave. It isn't acceptable and it can't continue on this trajectory indefinitely. My daughter is in kindergarten so we are a long way off from these decisions. But there is no way things can continue at the same pace for the next ten plus years. What will happen... I have no idea.

I know people are playing the game because they feel they have to and I don't mean this post as a criticism of anyone. I just see it as an entire aspect of life today that is completely ridiculous.

[GammaGirl1908]

In 1992/1993, I applied to 5. I applied to UVA, Michigan, William and Mary, Wesleyan, and Penn. I had an application to Howard, but had no intention of going there (sister was a student there, and it was 2 miles from home); I sat on it until the last minute, and I got accepted somewhere else and put it in the trash.

My (expensive private) high school had an incredible college advising team with these very elaborate relationships with colleges, so I had very skilled people helping me target a reasonable number of schools, choose a safety school, choose a reach school, find schools where I was very likely to get in, etc. There were very few surprises in the results.

The results: Wait listed but didn't pursue it at Wesleyan. Got a letter from Penn telling me they couldn't find my application check, and then a rejection letter a day later (I probably got rejected for being too dumb to staple the check to the form, which, fair enough). Got into W&M but it was too far from civilization; I never even visited.

It came down to UVA and UM and I picked UM, which probably was my first choice all along.

[WCsweet<3]

In 2007, I applied to eight colleges. I believe two or three used the common application so I got away with a couple easy apps. I went to a college prep school and many of the others in my class applied to more. My college advisor didn't really know what to do with me because I was looking for dance programs and I was the first person in my high school to every want to only major in dance. The others had dance as a second major and wanted to concentrate more on their first so they looked for programs that were strong in their first major.

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I know I'll probably be in the minority in this, but the entire higher education situation is just ridiculous. And I fully realize how much I've benefited from higher education.

Higher ed is hopefully the next big bubble to pop. Young kids today are being saddle with ridiculous amounts of college debt that stay with them to the grave. It isn't acceptable and it can't continue on this trajectory indefinitely. My daughter is in kindergarten so we are a long way off from these decisions. But there is no way things can continue at the same pace for the next ten plus years. What will happen... I have no idea.

I know people are playing the game because they feel they have to and I don't mean this post as a criticism of anyone. I just see it as an entire aspect of life today that is completely ridiculous.

Being someone in their first year of grad school, I fully agree with you. I feel like everyone feels as though they need to go to college. There are just some people who are not made out for it and practically kill themselves trying to get through. I'm not saying they are unintelligent, they are just not made out for what is expected in college. There is too much pressure to go to college and graduate. It seems like anymore all jobs require you to have at least a bachelors degree. I wish it wasn't so.

[DGTess]

In 1973 I applied to Carnegie Mellon and no other. I want to say UMass was my backup, but I don't recall actually applying. Perhaps the deadline was later.

No one in our family had ever gone to college, and had it not been for scholarships and loans, I wouldn't either. I want to say tuition and room and board were around $7500 per year, but then, our house only cost $12000.

I think my chapter dues were around $10-$15/month; our dorm floor was school-owned housing.

[aephi alum]

I was a high school senior during the 1992-93 school year. My parents and I did the "college tour" in August 1992 (they would not let me miss even one day of school for campus visits). We visited a mixed bag - MIT, Hahvahd, Cornell, Princeton, Williams, Amherst, Trinity, Caltech.

For some reason, my guidance counselor was pushing Case Western Reserve University, even though I was class valedictorian and knew I could get into Ivy+ schools. (Class standing was based on freshman-through-junior grades, so I could have blown off my whole senior year and still been valedictorian.) His idea was that I could easily make a 4.0 at CWRU and then go to MIT or Caltech for grad school. (I think he was getting kickbacks.) I did visit CWRU, but I had my heart set on going to MIT as an undergrad.

I was instructed to hand-write or type my applications. At the time, typewriters were becoming obsolete - my dad had a typewriter, but the alignment was screwy - so I hand-wrote everything, including my essays.

I applied early action to MIT and got in. I sent in the applications I (read: my dad) had already paid for: Hahvahd, Princeton, and Cornell. But my decision was made.

This was back in the day when banks sent you your actual physical cancelled checks with your statements. My dad still has the $50 check he wrote to MIT for my application fee.

Caltech begged me to apply. They sent me a letter to tell me that my application deadline was being extended from Jan. 1 to Jan. 15 because I am female. I never did apply.

My first semester's tuition at MIT (not including room and board) was $9500. The next semester, tuition hit $10000. This prompted a hack. A dorm room ran about $3000/semester. We had a declining-balance system for food - you put money in your account and then swiped your student ID when you bought food. I kept a small balance in my account so I could grab hot tea and a bagel in the mornings, and otherwise cooked for myself or hit the food trucks.

[Munchkin03]

This isn't really an issue of being "old" or what have you. Most of the application frenzy is related to getting into about 30 different colleges, if even that many. Kids who don't have those schools on their radar are still applying to only 2-3 schools.

I think the major exception to this is the Northeast Corridor, where there are just so many students, coupled with the higher interest in those 30 colleges, that you really have to hedge your bets. I was the only kid in my class who applied to my first choice--meanwhile, my best friend from college grew up in NYC, where 100 kids from her school applied. The odds are wonky up here.

Some states have auto-admit programs for students at the top of their classes or who have taken a certain number of college credits. So, those kids may end up applying to only one school, or maybe two if they are comparing scholarship offers. So, the "frenzy" is really a limited phenomenon and doesn't reflect reality for the vast majority of high schoolers today.

[PeppyGPhiB]

The only reason kids are applying to so many schools is because there is so much competition...because schools are getting so many applications. It's a catch 22 these kids - and their parents - have created for themselves. It reeks of indecision to me. Also, thinking parents are pushing kids to apply to schools that the kids have no interest in applying to, in addition to the schools the kids actually do want to attend. If this decision was left up to the kids, as it should be, I have a feeling there wouldn't be so many applications. This is in part why I think parents shouldn't be on the hook for paying for their kids' college educations - kids applying to schools that they know their parents can't afford, and that they're unwilling to take out loans to fund. What is the point in that? Very few private schools give out MERIT scholarships, and let's be real...those are the schools that prompt this kind of frenzy. Meanwhile, schools get so many applications that they can take their pick of the litter...and I imagine many of them are picking the same kids.

In 1995-1996 I applied to six schools: Pepperdine, Univ. of Washington, Boston U, USC, Univ. of Puget Sound and Western Wash. Univ. I got into all six, and you know why? Because I had heavily researched them, visited all of them with the exception of Boston U, and knew that my desires and qualifications were a good fit for them. I also worked hard on my applications and knew that I had to be comfortable with my choices because I was going to be the one footing almost all of the bill. I keep hearing about all these kids who don't visit the schools they're applying to, decide to apply the night before the deadline, and don't give applying much of a second thought because they assume their parents will just pay whatever it takes to send them to whichever school they want. Now, that is reality for some, but I don't really think it should be. I think a lot of kids take their college careers for granted when they're completely paid for by their parents. And when this discussion doesn't happen prior to application period, kids can apply to countless schools just because they can. It's a waste of time and money for all! No one should be applying to schools that they know they either can't get into nor afford.

[DoctorD]

In the "old" days, I applied to three and got into two of them.

One was a given, as they sent me a pre-printed application for me to sign and return. I was pre-admitted, based on my SAT scores, I think. This was a large state school in a neighboring state, and both of my parents are alums. I did not attend there. The "easiness" of getting in turned me off.

[Graphola]

It's mind-boggling when I hear freshmen talk to each other around campus. They'll say things like, "Yeah, this was only my 5th choice school." You mean you wrote up to 5 admissions essays, filled out up to 5 forms asking for identical information, and paid 5 application fees?! Why not save yourself the time and money, and instead figure out where you would fit in well (academically, socially, AND financially) instead of trying to force yourself into the most highly acclaimed (insert major here) program in the nation?

I applied to only one college for undergrad and just one college for graduate school. My little sister applied to one college. We were accepted to them, and we're happy with our choices.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I know I'll probably be in the minority in this, but the entire higher education situation is just ridiculous. And I fully realize how much I've benefited from higher education.

Higher ed is hopefully the next big bubble to pop. Young kids today are being saddle with ridiculous amounts of college debt that stay with them to the grave. It isn't acceptable and it can't continue on this trajectory indefinitely. My daughter is in kindergarten so we are a long way off from these decisions. But there is no way things can continue at the same pace for the next ten plus years. What will happen... I have no idea.

I know people are playing the game because they feel they have to and I don't mean this post as a criticism of anyone. I just see it as an entire aspect of life today that is completely ridiculous.

"They" said that my generation would be the first to NOT do better than their parents and I'm feeling that right now. My dad barely graduated with a 2.0 from a local state commuter college with a degree in Sociology. He got in at General Motors in marketing/market research and they paid him well once he paid his dues at lower levels and worked his way up. When I completed financial aid forms in 1983, his income was a little more than mine is now. However, his house payment was $200/month, gas was $1 a gallon, etc. My college tuition was $45.75/credit hour. My scholarship covered $600/term so my total tuition bill was around $86.25 for 15 credits.

Fast forward to now. The state college I went to is one of the cheapest and it's now $246/credit hour. Cost of living has skyrocketed. I make less than my dad made at this point in life. My house payment is five times what his was (and I live in a house that is almost identical to the one I grew up in!).

I am so stuck in this middle class space where we aren't qualifying for much in the way of grants or needs based scholarships but I don't make enough to pay the tuition outright and still live. We joked yesterday that we could get her a single and I could live in her dorm room with her!

Start saving for your daughter NOW. Don't put it off.

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

Being someone in their first year of grad school, I fully agree with you. I feel like everyone feels as though they need to go to college. There are just some people who are not made out for it and practically kill themselves trying to get through. I'm not saying they are unintelligent, they are just not made out for what is expected in college. There is too much pressure to go to college and graduate. It seems like anymore all jobs require you to have at least a bachelors degree. I wish it wasn't so.

Part of the problem is, the manufacturing jobs are disappearing so what do those people do? Yes, some should be going to school to be plumbers, electricians, etc., but with new house construction at a stand still, where are they going to work? This is the danger of moving to a service oriented society. There aren't many jobs out there that allow you to support yourself without a college degree.

Originally Posted by Graphola

It's mind-boggling when I hear freshmen talk to each other around campus. They'll say things like, "Yeah, this was only my 5th choice school." You mean you wrote up to 5 admissions essays, filled out up to 5 forms asking for identical information, and paid 5 application fees?! Why not save yourself the time and money, and instead figure out where you would fit in well (academically, socially, AND financially) instead of trying to force yourself into the most highly acclaimed (insert major here) program in the nation?

I applied to only one college for undergrad and just one college for graduate school. My little sister applied to one college. We were accepted to them, and we're happy with our choices.

With the common app, you don't have to fill out five different ones. You do have to pay 5 application fees, fees to send test scores, etc., but you're doing one app and maybe one or two additional essays for each school (some are more, but most are not). Out of the thousands of schools in this country, there are easily more than 5 that might fit a student.

My daughter's criteria in choosing schools were about a) being around students with passion for learning, b) in locations or with enough "clout" to get really good, interesting internships, c) politically active and aware campuses, and d) enough flexibility in their curriculum that she can try to tailor her courses to her areas of interest and figure out how to combine those into a career someday (english-writing & lit, political science, public policy, communications). Oh yes, and get the hell out of Michigan, a huge priority of hers. She may have accepted that she might have to wait for grad school to accomplish the latter.

She and her friends are all overwhelmed right now. I will be more involved in my son's decisions, but he is also asking me for more guidance already. I will approach things differently and encourage more "safety" schools which will give him merit scholarships.

It's crazy out there.

[Senusret I]

I applied to a lot of schools.

I got into about 2/3.

1/3 were schools I would not consider but gave generous financial aid: Denison, St. John's in Minnesota, Washington College in MD, etc.

Another 1/3 were a very diverse group of schools which also gave generous financial aid: Georgetown, George Washington, Hampshire College

I did not get into any Ivies or any college in the state of New York: Columbia, NYU, Vassar, wait-listed at Sarah Lawrence, etc.

I did not know what kind of college would be best for me and in the end it was between Georgetown and Hampshire College. The aid was better at Georgetown. I also had a phenomenal time at the open house weekend.

I wish I could remember the complete list of schools I got into.

[LAblondeGPhi]

When I applied, I had to trudge uphill in the snow to get my applications in to the post office.