Beta Thata Pi closes at Texas

[g41965]

Beta closed at Texas this spring. Beta was a good chapter in the 1980's 100 plus, Virgin Island Party. Closed due to low numbers.What is up with the Texas greek system only 20 or so NIC chapters on campus. In 1985 system had around 30 chapters on campus. Sigma Nu 100 + members ,Beta 100+, DU 80+,Delta Sig 90+,AEPI 90+ all gone or very very small now.
The strongest chapters remain, DTD, KA, Fiji, SAE, Sig Ep, KSig,ZBT Sammie ATO Phi Psi and PKA. Has Sigma Chi come back. 12-13 strong chapters on a campus with 50 thousand students,sad.

Dont gripe if I left 1 or 2 out I know Phi Delt and Acacia closed,Lambda Chi also closed don't know if their back on. If so their pretty small.

[FSUZeta]

it is always sad when anyone's chapter closes. hopefully they can regroup and return when the time is right.

i wonder if it is a combination of things=the economy, more kids having to work while they attend college, maybe some poor marketing on the part of greek life. who knows?

[SWTXBelle]

Sigma Chi is back.

[Elephant Walk]

Isn't Phi Delt where that kid on here went after he was exposed?

[banditone]

I just don't get Texas' fraternity situation. I know it is very hard to get/keep housing on that campus, but it's ridiculous that they are not stronger. And for them to lose so many large and tradition rich chapters is a shame.

[ebdelt]

Here is a list of active chapters at UT:

Acacia
Alpha Epsilon Pi
Alpha Tau Omega
Chi Phi
Delta Chi
Delta Sigma Phi
Delta Tau Delta
Kappa Sigma
Lambda Chi Alpha
Phi Gamma Delta
Phi Delta Theta
Phi Kappa Theta
Phi Kappa Psi
Pi Kappa Alpha
Pi Kappa Phi
Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Sigma Alpha Mu
Sigma Chi
Sigma Phi Epsilon
Sigma Pi
Tau Kappa Epsilon
Theta Chi
Zeta Beta Tau
Zeta Psi

I think the thing with UT's Greek system is that the "top" chapters for both sororities and fraternities is that they have so much history. These chapters have all been here for over 100+ years and have since acquired a lot of $$$ and nice houses. SAE, SigEp, Fiji, KA, Delt, Kappa Sig, ATO, ZBT, and a few others all have big houses with lots of members that pay EXTREME amounts of dues and these houses have pretty much always been on top. It's like paying for college twice, but when you have that much cash flow they throw the biggest and best socials and have the most to offer to top prospects in rush. The smaller fraternities just can't really compete and thus are nearly mute in the university's social scene which thus in turn creates a cycle of not recruiting as well as the other established chapters.

Regardless it's always sad to see a chapter go...especially a historical chapter that's been around since 1886.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by ebdelt

....

I think the thing with UT's Greek system is that the "top" chapters for both sororities and fraternities is that they have so much history. These chapters have all been here for over 100+ years and have since acquired a lot of $$$ and nice houses. SAE, SigEp, Fiji, KA, Delt, Kappa Sig, ATO, ZBT, and a few others all have big houses with lots of members that pay EXTREME amounts of dues and these houses have pretty much always been on top. It's like paying for college twice, but when you have that much cash flow they throw the biggest and best socials and have the most to offer to top prospects in rush. The smaller fraternities just can't really compete and thus are nearly mute in the university's social scene which thus in turn creates a cycle of not recruiting as well as the other established chapters.

Regardless it's always sad to see a chapter go...especially a historical chapter that's been around since 1886.

@ the bold: I have consistently heard this about the UT-Austin greek system from the sorority side: dues can cost twice as much as tuition for the reasons you stated.

[EE-BO]

Morning all,

For those not aware since I have not posted in a while, I am a Texas Beta alumnus and have been the chapter’s advisor for the past four years.

It was hard to see the chapter temporarily close down, but there was no alternative. And I have to give the guys a lot of credit for how they did it. On advice of alumni looking at membership levels and costs, the chapter paid their bills and voluntarily exited gracefully. This means the charter is still active and Beta is still in good standing with the University. Our national office has been very supportive in this process and we plan to come back in the future at a time when it makes economic sense. We may not have a footprint in West Campus this fall, but we still exist- and this is important considering our long legacy at UT.

To address the more general questions about Texas and the state of fraternities, I have spent a good bit of time the past four years examining the real estate and Greek Life situation at UT as compared to how it was in my day, and I have some answers to the obvious question of why Greek Life is on the decline in terms of numbers.

In 2004, the City rezoned West Campus. For years building restrictions were very tight- which is why a University that traditionally housed less than 5% of its students on campus had 2 and 3 story apartment buildings, small houses and numerous Greek houses offering a very expensive and inefficient housing solution right next door to campus. If you think the $1,200 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment in one of the now numerous high rises is expensive, 15 years ago when I was at Texas- my 2 bedroom apartment in West Campus was $1,500 a month!

Being Greek was not only prestigious, it made financial sense. When I lived in the Beta House, yes my dues were close to $3,000 a year- but I also paid $400 a month for a private room in the house with 14 meals a week and all utilities paid. If you merge my dues and rent- I was essentially paying $650 a month to live in West Campus- versus my $750 share, plus utilities, of the apartment I had after I moved out.

Back then, off the top of my head I would speculate there were 20+ viable fraternities with decent sized houses and enough members to sustain those properties.

Today there are 11 that fit that category- and a couple of them are a major needed renovation away from being on the financial brink.

With the rezoning happening during the housing boom, and decades of pent-up property development lust suddenly unleashed on a golden opportunity, property values skyrocketed- and so did taxes. Based on the 2007 appraised value of one of the largest and most prestigious Texas fraternities, I would estimate about $1,800 a year for every active goes just to pay property taxes.

Even if you are just living in a bedroom and sharing a bathroom with 10 other guys, living in a fraternity house in West Campus is no longer of financial benefit when you add in the cost of dues (which are as much as $3,000 a semester these days plus costs to get to OU, buy tuxedos etc.)

On the numbers side, the Hopwood ruling had an enormous impact. A significant number of top fraternity candidates suddenly could not get into UT with the 10% rule in effect (which has gradually been worked back to a more rational approach since.) So the big party scene migrated a bit to other schools- directly reflected in a rise in serious RM incidents at other campuses while at UT things improved dramatically. The guys still have their fun, but academics are definitely taken far more seriously by virtue of who is getting in and what UT expects from students.

The combination of fewer undergraduates with the money and interest in Greek Life with spiraling housing costs created the situation of 3 years ago. The economy has made it worse since for many chapters.

The so-called “Big Five” plus a couple of other chapters are doing just fine. Their numbers are down too, 150ish per chapter versus close to 200 back in my time, but they are alive and well- and it is worth noting that, unlike in the past, their average GPAs are astonishingly high. 3.2+ in most cases, which is pretty impressive for any student group at any school.

But outside of that, things remain difficult. There may be fewer fraternities in the traditional sense of the term at Texas, but there are a LOT more GLOs than ever- and lacking the cost of maintaining a large house they are able to offer a more financially viable option.

Now that housing has busted, one might think it is a good time for a chapter to come back. Unfortunately that is not the case. Thanks to the timing of the bust and rebuilding of West Campus- there are large empty plots of land all over the place. Two perfect chapter houses were demolished before the bust and so what might have been a good rental or purchase option for a few Greek groups is now an empty space that would require a major building campaign at a time when even the wealthiest of alumni are hard pressed to pump millions into the construction of a new house.

It is worth noting, by the way, that the sororities are doing fine. Most of the houses are still there and the chapters quite viable. This is part of a long term trend I have mapped back to the 1960s. For decades, fraternity chapters here would get shut down for some bad incident (Beta is one of the few, maybe the only one, that has NEVER been shut down for any length of time for an RM incident)- only to find on their return that land options were limited as sold properties were redeveloped into apartments or bought by the University.

There are still many sorority houses within 1-2 blocks of campus. Not so for fraternities, and I created a map once that shows the very clear migration of most fraternities to the further reaches of the student areas of West Campus as chapters shut down and later re-started. Back in the 1940s, many fraternities were just as close to campus as the sorority houses are today.

I think we are a good 5-10 years away from the days when there may again be 20+ viable fraternity chapters with houses large enough to host parties and meetings. And even then, the houses will not be like they were before.

The new norm is going to be a house with 2-4 bedrooms and a very large meeting/party area- or in rare instances something like what SAE did where you have an apartment complex physically separate from a lodge-type building. It is the only way to offer an option that is financially appealing compared to other West Campus options, and also allow housing corporations the flexibility to own and financially maintain the properties through periods of low membership or suspension.

Anyhow- there it is. Sorry to be so long, but that is the whole story (in brief, believe it or not.)

[EE-BO]

PS- I am going to consult others for their thoughts, but might move this to the Beta forum or another spot. This was a logical spot for the OP to start the thread, but there was not a hazing or RM incident involved here- and I just want to avoid any associations along those lines. Or maybe I am too close to the situation and overly sensitive about it. Either way, if it moves, that is the reason. I am all for an open discussion on this and will answer any questions anyone might have which are on topic and appropriate. Much can be learned from this situation at a time when many chapters are suffering financially.

[oldu]

Thank you for a such a clear explanation as to what has happened with fraternities (and to some extent sororities) at Texas. It is almost a mirror description of many Big Ten universities today. I have a 1960s yearbook from Texas and it is hearbreaking to see the huge number of large and well-housed fraternities that are today either closed or a skeleton of what they once were. Check out the situation at Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Minnesota, etc. and you will see exactly the same thing. I hope you are correct about the future -- I'm not so optimstic. Thanks again for the report.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by oldu

Thank you for a such a clear explanation as to what has happened with fraternities (and to some extent sororities) at Texas. It is almost a mirror description of many Big Ten universities today. I have a 1960s yearbook from Texas and it is hearbreaking to see the huge number of large and well-housed fraternities that are today either closed or a skeleton of what they once were. Check out the situation at Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Minnesota, etc. and you will see exactly the same thing. I hope you are correct about the future -- I'm not so optimstic. Thanks again for the report.

With regards to the other campuses you mention, is it a pure real estate play or do you think long term RM issues also played a role in terms of making it hard for chapters to keep a single property in hand for decades and sustain it financially?

[oldu]

I think there are a myriad of reasons for the downfall of fraternities at these large and prestigious institutions. Much of it is our own fault, but more of it the University's policies. However, now that we are where we are today it is almost prohibitive for any group to create competitive housing at any of these high cost locations, and therefore to return and be successful. That is why I am not very encouraged about the future viability of fraternities at these prominent schools. One by one the strong groups weaken or get in trouble and leave campus, but it rare that a new fraternity comes along and successfully builds to a large and prosperous membership. Of those I am familiar with. thegroups who return are no where near as strong as they were when the existed earlier. You can add Iowa to the earlier list -- the situation there is terrible.

[srmom]

EE-Bo, I was just at the KA house last weekend helping my son hang some curtains in his room when I saw that the Beta house was empty! I'm so sorry to hear that y'all have closed shop!

What are y'all planning to do with the property at this point? There is that other empty lot across the street from the Kappa Sig house that hasn't been developed yet either, so combined with y'all's lot, that is a huge piece of land.

My hope is that y'all return! Otherwise, it will be the BLOCK on both sides of the KA house! You won't even be able to see the sun!!

Good luck to you and your boys!!

Oh, and ebdelt, add Kappa Alpha to your list of active fraternities. They haven't been in the IFC for a while, so they're not listed on the greeklife website, but they're there! and, they are rejoining the IFC as of last spring - the site just hasn't been updated, but, they've paid the $$$$ from what I've heard.

[EE-BO]

Thank you for the feedback oldu. After 4 years of being an advisor and having be a lot more time-consuming and expensive than expected (though very much worth it!), I am taking about a year break before helping other alumni lay the foundation for a return to campus. I will make a note to do some homework on the campuses you mention. The more research and preparation, the better- since things are going to have to be different this go around.

Srmom! Good to hear from you! Hope you are well. Sounds like all is well in the KA house. Interesting the old Beta property is empty- I am not surprised. We did not own it- merely renting from the 3rd or 4th in a long line of property investors who I suspect had hoped to merge it with adjacent properties and build big. Ironically, after all these years the necessary property is available to make that happen- but it seems noone has the appetite to buy it and consolidate the lots.

The big empty lot by KA you refer to used to be the Chi Phi house. It was torn down a couple of years ago I believe. There was a small house in the center and then a large U shaped row of apartments around it- kind of like Sigma Chi but on a less grand scale.

Not sure what is up with the land, but when I last looked over a year ago they still owned the property. For any housing corp who can cover the taxes, it makes no sense to try and sell a parcel of land like that right now.

[g41965]

DU Alumni still own the house at 2305 Leon, not near as big as our old house at 2510 Leon, which is now the biggest condo complex I've ever seen but It's in fairly good shape don't know if or when DU will recolonize.
After DU closed in 2000 a new colony was formed.The colony was up to 40 members but lost recognition for risk management issues. The chapter was supposed to be dry but seemed that the college guys like kegs.