Hazing Dogma/SigChiO MTV Fraternity Life

[Zephyr]

This is just an observation I made watching MTV's fraternity life... and I shoud tell you I'm a Membership Development Advisor for my sorority, and it's my job to help our Chapters put together POSITIVE, NON HAZING programs. I understand there is a big difference between pledging a sorority and a fraternity....but

Sigma Chi Omega is only 3 and a half years old. I think their pledges kidn fo suck and seem disinterested in the fraternity...but I also think that it's almost gratuitous hazing they have going on. They haven't even been around that long and they are yelling about tradition? These guys are brand new!!! How can they be so angry already? By angry I mean this frat should still be deciding what kind of an organization they are, etc. etc....

[/COLOR] Do they haze just because it's a fraternity and they think they are supposed to? It's like hazing dogma or something! I'm sorry but this frat is really playing into a lot of stereotypes.


although it was pretty funny when the pledgemaster yelled at the pledge, "Don't EVER blame your grandmother...it is never your grandmother's fault!!!"

At least I hope, since they are so new, their pledges wont' have too much information to memorize, resulting in less push ups for them to do.

After this semester I'd be surprised if Sigma Chi Omega was still at U. B.

[damasa]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I've never been a fan of locals...it's bad I know, my Chapter started out as a local...but seriously. After this semester I'd be surprised if Sigma Chi Omega was still at U. B.

You continue to think like that and you will form a huge generalization.

This local might be bad yes. But that doesn't mean other locals are the same. And that sure doesn't mean that nationals are not as bad or possibly worse. You often hear about the hazing incidents involving so and so chapter of so and so national.

Nationals are just smart enough to not put a chapter in this sort of situation. Most locals don't have that kind of guidance. Does that make them any less? No.

And to ask you a simple question, how many locals do you actualy know or have contact with? If you aren't a fan of locals because of what you see on MTV, I can do nothing but wow at that.

[Zephyr]

Well, the whole point of that email was about hazing, not locals...

I do know a lot of locals, my only real issue is I wouldn't join one because I think having a governing body that is a national organization is good for the longevity of any GLO, and when I go back to college, I like having a place to come "home" to, and I feel better knowing that it is likely to be around for years to come because of the assitance we get from Nationals.

[damasa]

Originally posted by Zephyr
Well, the whole point of that email was about hazing, not locals...

I do know a lot of locals, my only real issue is I wouldn't join one because I think having a governing body that is a national organization is good for the longevity of any GLO, and when I go back to college, I like having a place to come "home" to, and I feel better knowing that it is likely to be around for years to come because of the assitance we get from Nationals.

So if an org doesn't get assistance from a national they won't be around as long? OMG......yet another generalization in the every respect of the word. There are many a local that have existed longer than many a national chapter. There are quite a few in my state alone that have been around for 100 years +.

I don't think that a chapter of a national glo has a better chance of existing longer than a local. Look at all of the hazing issues with so many chapters of nationals closing. There is no guarantee.

I'm sorry to sound harsh but its true......

Just remember...every national was at one time just a "local."

[Zephyr]

OMG...

that post was NOT about locals, and you can relax I edited it out. And yes, I do think that there are very real benefits of being part of a National GLO. I know there are some very old locals. But it's difficult for newer ones; one of the best benefits is that you have rules and guidelines spelled out for you already, so that you don't have to make up your rules and governances the hard way; but trying things and finding out what works and what doesn't work.

All I'm saying is that I see very real benefits of being part of a National GLO... more so than being a local, and that's my feeling onthat, and I'm sticking to it!

[damasa]

Originally posted by Zephyr
OMG...

that post was NOT about locals, and you can relax I edited it out. And yes, I do think that there are very real benefits of being part of a National GLO. I know there are some very old locals. But it's difficult for newer ones; one of the best benefits is that you have rules and guidelines spelled out for you already, so that you don't have to make up your rules and governances the hard way; but trying things and finding out what works and what doesn't work.

All I'm saying is that I see very real benefits of being part of a National GLO... more so than being a local, and that's my feeling onthat, and I'm sticking to it!

LOL, why edit it? Be true to your statements..lol

I am very relaxed believe you me, the original post may not have been about locals, but in a sense it was by adding that at the end. You can stick with you want....it's your opinion and I respect that. I just feel that it is somewhat of a close-minded opinion. You stated yourself that you don't know many locals. As for a new local starting out, I think it's almost harder for a new chapter of a national to start out at times as opposed to a new local starting out. It's hard for any chapter to start out in today's society and I don't think that any can argue that point. Sometimes it's nice to be able to form and govern your own rules and I think people can agree with that too. It gives you a sense of "freedom" so to speak.


Seriously, this isn't an attack but I just feel that you have a one-sided view on the subject. People should really support the greek community as a whole, no matter affiliation, local, national, etc. After all, greek life is on the decline.....

[Zephyr]

I said I know A LOT of locals...I really do!

Maybe my opinion is close minded, but I'm basing it on what I've seen.

I edited my thing because I jsut don't feel that strongly about locals and it truly wasn't the point of that post, plus I didn't want everyone else who read it to take it teh same way you did when it wasn't my intention.

[damasa]

Originally posted by Zephyr
I said I know A LOT of locals...I really do!

Maybe my opinion is close minded, but I'm basing it on what I've seen.

I edited my thing because I jsut don't feel that strongly about locals and it truly wasn't the point of that post, plus I didn't want everyone else who read it to take it teh same way you did when it wasn't my intention.

Sorry, I read that you didn't know a lot of locals, that's my bad.

Yes, your opinion is close-minded without a doubt and "basing it on what you've seen" is a great way to form stereotypes and generalizations.

I decided to post the way I did because I don't want people to read that statement the same way you interpret it because there are many locals out there that are actually decent chapters.

But come on, if I stated that "I wasn't a big fan of nationals" I would never hear the end of it.


In all, I like to see people take a unified stance on greek life and the difference of organizations. When this doesn't happen, those that are looking to go greek can be greatly affected.

There is a lot of hatred of locals and I'll never understand it because there are many similarities between locals and nationals. They both do good, and they both do bad....there is no in between.....


/end

[damasa]

My position on Sigma Chi Omega. I don't think they'll be around after this seris on MTV. I would hope not anyway.

[PM_Mama00]

Welcome to the Damasa and Zephyr Show, starring Damasa and Zephyr.

[RUgreek]

Originally posted by Zephyr
After this semester I'd be surprised if Sigma Chi Omega was still at U. B.

Originally posted by damasa
My position on Sigma Chi Omega. I don't think they'll be around after this series on MTV. I would hope not anyway.

Ouch, that's a bit harsh I think. What exactly do they do that makes you two dislike them this much?

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Welcome to the Damasa and Zephyr Show, starring Damasa and Zephyr.

At least they can agree on hating together


- RUgreek

[kddani]

Originally posted by RUgreek
Ouch, that's a bit harsh I think. What exactly do they do that makes you two dislike them this much?
- RUgreek

Perhaps it's because they haze the crap out of their pledges, for starters. Which has an effect on the entire greek population.

Have you read the threads??? Have you seen the show?

Also judging from that official statement from UofB, i'd also be very surprised if they were still there next year.

[sugar and spice]

I think the point that RUGreek is trying to bring up is that the SXO boys AREN'T technically hazing. Yes, by any national Greek organization's rules they would be hazing. However, check out the New York state laws:

http://www.stophazing.org/laws/ny_law.htm

According to those, no hazing is going on.

And since Sigma Chi Omega is a local, not a national, they have no national standards to adhere to.

So despite the fact that what they're doing may not necessarily be healthy, nice, or very good for Greek image -- it's not illegal.

[kddani]

I definately take issue with the NY law.... basically until someone gets hurt, it's not hazing.
Even so, it could still be interpreted as hazing. Just about anything could cause physical injury, especially physical activity. So, by interpreting the NY statute, either
a) it's not hazing until someone gets hurt. So if someone breaks an arm, stubbs a finger, etc. it magically could be considered nazing
b) someone could argue that any kind of forced physical activity could put someone at risk for substantial physical activity.

I do find it interesting that the NY statute doesn't mention anything about phychological effects. I want to look into other state's laws further for comparision when I have a bit of time (i'm in the middle of writing a huge paper right now, this is my quick break)

UB's hazing policy

Statement of Hazing
Hazing is defined as "any action taken or situation created, intentionally,whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include, but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks, quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other activities carried on outside or inside the confines of the chapter house; wearing in public apparel which is conspicuous and not in normally good taste; engaging in public stunts and buffoonery, morally degrading or humiliating games and activities; and any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal law, ritual or policy or the laws and policies of the educational institution.
*FIPG (Fraternity Insurance Purchasing Group)

* All groups are required to follow FIPG policy or their national policy.
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While they may not be violating state law, they are violating their university's hazing code. As a member of their IFC, they are required to follow those rules. It'll be interesting to see what they do as the season goes on, but even though Sigma Chi Omega is a local, they still have to follow university rules.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by kddani

While they may not be violating state law, they are violating their university's hazing code. As a member of their IFC, they are required to follow those rules. It'll be interesting to see what they do as the season goes on, but even though Sigma Chi Omega is a local, they still have to follow university rules.

i remember some writing in another thread that they WEREN'T part of IFC therefore they didn't have to follow IFC rules. Yes it looks bad on TV but technically they aren't breaking the law.

Sorry... i am confused by all the IFC/University/State rules... they are all different from what i read. But you would hope that SXO would have looked up the hazing laws before they showed it all on TV.