American????

[ClassyLady]

With everything that has happened recently, this country has united. We are all hearing so much about being American , American values, and American pride.

But, I ask you, do you really consider yourself to be a true blue American???

I'm sure that everyone has done something to help in the relief efforts. But, is that because of your patriotic pride or your love of serving others?

I consider myself to be American. But, I can say that I would NEVER fight for this country or do a lot of other "patriotic" or "heroic" things in the name of the United States of America.

[straightBOS]

Why wouldn't you fight for the country?

Don't you know that many have fought so that you can have the pleasure to say that?

In wayyyy to many countries on this planet, you could never have the pleasure of making that decision. I am not a born US citizen, so maybe I can't see it your way.

But really, most American's cannot truly understand just how much better they have it than the rest of the world. I would hope that you all would see the importance of protecting this. For the the freedom to diagree with, protest against, or even detest your nation and its leaders is a freedom that not everyone can enjoy.

[Special1920]

----------stepping out of lurkdom--------------------

I'm so surprised to see so many AFRICAN AMERICANS turning this into a black/white issue. Saying things about not flying the flag, not believing in the flag, not fighting for this country, etc. This is not a black/white issue. So many people dogging out this country, but I don't see any packing bags leaving. I know personally, when I don't feel welcomed anywhere, I leave, simple.
I love this country, personally I've been more discriminated against for being a woman, then for being black. I love people. If we have to go to war, we need to go......simple!

[MavenofDrec]

Guys,

It is NOT about being unpatriotic...for African-Americans the price of freedom was paid for with the tears of our ancestors. I am not about to go into a discourse on the trials and tribulations of slavery. But I will say that people who came to this country kicking and screaming and in chains, no less, will never be able to truly, fully, believe that this is the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE.
I enjoy the liberties of being an American citizen as much as the next guy, but that doesn't prevent me from analyzing the layers of politics behind blind patrioticism.
That is ALL I am prepared to say in this forum.

[The Original Ape]

The United States is the best place to live. We have more freedoms allowed us than any place in the world; but many of the freedoms we are told we have, we really don't have. Laws are broken by the very people responsible for making them and enforcing them. Our government representatives lie to us, yet expects us to be so committed when it's in their best interests. They want us to lay down our lives when THEY launch a war. My father and grandfather fought in wars; and when they returned to this country, had no jobs because of the color of their skin. My father was wounded for this country, yet received the worst treatment at a VA hospital-which was undersupplied and very poorly staffed. He died in that hospital too.
If the government doesn't care for its soldiers, why should the soldiers and their families care about this country? If I was a white, middle-to-upper class man; then yeah, I would be as patriotic as the next person. I'd be mad as hell about the terrorists! But I'm not any of the above. I feel for those that lost their lives, and for their families; but every time I go home from work, the cops and their profiling remind me that I'm such a small part of america, and not really an american. The rights they tell us we have, we don't have.

When they allow people of color to share in the wealth, treat us equally, grant us opportunity, and respect us as equal citizens; then I'll be a "proud american".

[tickledpink]

Yes, I consider myself to be a true blue American. And this is from someone who was born and lived in NYC, then was hit with the blatant racism of the South after we moved. Even though I've experienced "the stare" (deep southerners know what we call it), being ignored in stores, being refused service as a teenager because southern clerks didn't think we knew our rights, racial profiling (yes, it happens to females to) ~ to the point of cops being called and me & my friends being frisked (yep!) in a Hardees because they felt that we were "too loud", yet never bothered to tell us... I could go on & on ~ I am still proud to be an American. I understand why some say have developed the attitudes that they have, but I don't agree.

I am now an adult & I still chose to live here. I have to remember, those that have violated me do not comprise all of America. They are just the ignorant part, and ignorance is found in every country. Should that effect our feelings about our citizenship? Personally no. It should enrage us enough to want to do something about it that will result in a positive change. I love being able to meet so many different people, from different cultures.

Did anyone catch the part of the President's speech where he mentioned that people in Afghanistan could be jailed for owning a TV? We do an awful lot of complaining (and usually, justifiably so), but we are still alive. Can many of our ancestors say the same? They fought this battle, and now, we can sit here on the internet and debate it without being hung from trees. Did anyone read Z Chi's post about the Afghanistanian widows that are buried alive? Thank God I was born in this country, in this day & age.

Refusing to show patriotism will not change anything, refusing to fight will not change anything. All of these things will only further separate us, which at this time, is definately not needed. We lost people also. Do we really think that African Americans that were on those planes were debating their loyalty to America, or if the terrorists noticed the difference? In the end, what good does further separating ourselves do? If there are further attacks, do we really think terrorists will discriminate in who they kill, or will they simply seek to harm Americans? If they bomb one of our predominately black neighborhoods, will we debate our citizenship then?

[sunnydays96]

Tickledpink gets two thumbs up from me.

[Special1920]

Tickledpink, you said it perfectly. I'm still baffled when I hear African Americans making the terrorist attacks a black/white issue.
Thanks Tickledpink.

[ClassyLady]

I am not in any way saying that the terrorist attacks were a black/white issue. But, what happened last tuesday is what got me thinking about this topic. Most blacks in this country call themselves African-Americans and I wanted to know just how many felt that they were truly Americans.

StraightBOS:

I stated that I would not die fighting for this country. But, I also would not die for a lot of things. At this point, I can only say that I would die for my Lord and my loved ones.

I also know how many people fought for my right to say that. Some of them were my family members, who fought and died for this country. What did this country do for them? They returned home from WWII, Vietnam, and Korea and there was hardly a show of gratitude. No one cared about what they had done for this country.

So many are talking about their loyalty to this country. Where is this country's loyalty to me and my family? How many times have we seen crimes against blacks go intentionally unsolved and unpunished? And, how many times have we seen the same crimes committed against the majority and justice isn't swift enough?

[The Original Ape]

You are probably too young to remember but, you should ask the black people living in Phili if they considered themselves american when the FBI bombed apartments, and shot up almost all of the members of The Black Panther Party there a couple of decades ago. Some of these people STILL don't consider themselves american because of it. This government has pesistently persued and had their way with our leaders. Who REALLY killed Martin and Malcolm?

It would make you wonda.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
You are probably too young to remember but, you should ask the black people living in Phili if they considered themselves american when the FBI bombed apartments, and shot up almost all of the members of The Black Panther Party there a couple of decades ago. Some of these people STILL don't consider themselves american because of it.

I'm too young to remember that, myself. Anyhow, are these people STILL living in Philly or whereever? If they are, why are they STILL HERE? There are many countries, islands, areas where they can go and discuss their dismay, etc. about the good ole US of A.

************************************************** ************************************************** ****

My thoughts: I am not looking for a "amen" corner, nor am I looking for someone who doesn't agree. I could care less.
This is how I feel:

I wouldn't want my son or daughter to enter into the military. But for some, they don't/didn't have a choice. If they LIKE doing their job as in protecting the country, then I LOVE IT!

This country will NEVER be a PERFECT UNION/NATION, just like LIFE isn't. But, if one does not like the set-up here, go live in a desolate, indigent area. Some nations are so poor that they make those living here in the projects, receiving WIC and other gov't sponsored funds, they make them look like Kings and Queens.

Heck, you MAKE your life here in America! Whatever your situation is, that's it. Stop complaing and get out there and help YOURSELF and OTHERS!


We ALL have an opportunity, if one decides to let those opportunities pass, oh well...IT'S ALL ABOUT CHOICES!



I've been out of this country and folks don't have it nearly as well as we do, with all the "ya ya", "bs" we have to go through as AA.
I ain't going nowhere. I'll remain in the USA until I pass on! TRUST!

[tickledpink]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
You are probably too young to remember but, you should ask the black people living in Phili if they considered themselves american when the FBI bombed apartments, and shot up almost all of the members of The Black Panther Party there a couple of decades ago. Some of these people STILL don't consider themselves american because of it. This government has pesistently persued and had their way with our leaders. Who REALLY killed Martin and Malcolm?

It would make you wonda.

I'm also too young to remember that (how old are you again, OA? ). Anyway, again, we all know the problems that exist with our gov't in reference to their treatment of African Americans. However, I don't feel that now is the time for us to attack our own gov't. If or when further attacks come, they will be against all of us. Like Special 1920, I have gotten very frustrated with our fellow Americans that have turned this into a race related issue.

We have to be able to see past color to get to the crux of the issue.

Am I looking through "rose colored glasses", thinking that racism does not exist ~ absolutely not. There's a time and a place for everything, and with war eminent, this is not the time. Were these feelings present before the attacks ~ yes. But what were we doing about them?

[mccoyred]

I am on a building-wide committee at work where we host events throughout the year to foster an esprit de corps amongst the various departments in our workplace. Our next scheduled event was a Diversity Fair but in light of the tragic events, we decided to make it a Proud to be American Day.

As a Black American, I had to sit down and think about what this really means to me. I have come to the conclusion that despite all of the problems in this country and it's bloody history, I WOULD RATHER BE HERE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. While we live in the belly of the Beast, we have it better than most other people in the world.

Do you know how many countries don't even HAVE a Constitution? While our government may not live up to the spirit of the Law and our public servants often act like they are above it, we are lucky to be able to point to something and to know there are recourses.

Our ancestors fought, slaved and died that we might have the freedoms we enjoy. It is our duty to continue the fight so that our children and grandchildren may enjoy even more.

So, tomorrow, along with the rest of the company, I will humbly display my pride by wearing Red, White and Blue...and possibly a flag.

[ChaosDST]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
You are probably too young to remember but, you should ask the black people living in Phili if they considered themselves american when the FBI bombed apartments, and shot up almost all of the members of The Black Panther Party there a couple of decades ago. Some of these people STILL don't consider themselves american because of it. This government has pesistently persued and had their way with our leaders. Who REALLY killed Martin and Malcolm?

It would make you wonda.

I agree with what you have said. And I "recall" what you're speaking of. However, at a time of international separation and crisis, the American public needs to show a sense of National unity. I don't place responsibility for this sense of unity in the hands of "this government," I place this in the hands of God. "One nation, under God, indivisible," should have ALWAYS meant something to this Nation...but had been swept under the rug. Now, this (along with our motto "In God We Trust") means more to Americans now than ever.
As my soror stated, I talk trash about America (used to not stand up for the National Anthem...but stood for the Black National Anthem and placed my hand over my heart) but, compare even some of the "worst" American injustices to that of other lands...and you would be kicking and screaming to get back on American soil.