Join Cardinal Mahony: NO on HR 4437

[XOMichelle]

This bill makes a lot of charitable activities illegal (including what I do at volunteer clinics in LA), increases racial profiling, and increases racial tensions. By making even small charitable acts illegal almost everyone will have broken the law. Since persecuting everyone is not possible, this law opens the door for a local law enforcement to go after the people they want: who will undoubtedly be poor and non-white.

Not only that: but if we kick out all the migrant farm workers the price of fruit will soar. I like cheap strawberries guys (j/k). This is not a good solution-- as much as people don't like to admit it people immigrate to this country because they can get jobs. Employers give illegal immigrants jobs all the time. Your office building is probably cleaned by them, your lawns are mowed by them, and they are your nannies. Temporary visas won't fix the problem either... what happens when they expire and the immigrants say in the country? We have a lot of illegal immigrants: same place where we are now.

This is a bill that is based in intolerance and does not reflect the true workings of the American economy.

ps- don't tell me stuff about flooding social services or terrorism... we don’t have social services to any extent in this country, and this bill is about illegal immigrans who live in the US. It's about Mexican immigrants who want to stay here to raise families and have a better life like our immigrant ancestors did. Besides, the amount you save on produce (because illegal immigrants pick it for you dirt cheap) is probably more than any services illegal immigrants use.


*********************
From the NY times:

Editorial
The Gospel vs. H.R. 4437



Published: March 3, 2006
It has been a long time since this country heard a call to organized lawbreaking on this big a scale. Cardinal Roger Mahony of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, the nation's largest, urged parishioners on Ash Wednesday to devote the 40 days of Lent to fasting, prayer and reflection on the need for humane reform of immigration laws. If current efforts in Congress make it a felony to shield or offer support to illegal immigrants, Cardinal Mahony said, he will instruct his priests — and faithful lay Catholics — to defy the law.

The cardinal's focus of concern is H.R. 4437, a bill sponsored by James Sensenbrenner Jr. of Wisconsin and Peter King of New York. This grab bag legislation, which was recently passed by the House, would expand the definition of "alien smuggling" in a way that could theoretically include working in a soup kitchen, driving a friend to a bus stop or caring for a neighbor's baby. Similar language appears in legislation being considered by the Senate this week.

The enormous influx of illegal immigrants and the lack of a coherent federal policy to handle it have prompted a jumble of responses by state and local governments, stirred the passions of the nativist fringe, and reinforced anxieties since 9/11. Cardinal Mahony's defiance adds a moral dimension to what has largely been a debate about politics and economics. "As his disciples, we are called to attend to the last, littlest, lowest and least in society and in the church," he said.

The cardinal is right to argue that the government has no place criminalizing the charitable impulses of private institutions like his, whose mission is to help people with no questions asked. The Los Angeles Archdiocese, like other religious organizations across the country, runs a vast network of social service programs offering food and emergency shelter, child care, aid to immigrants and refugees, counseling services, and computer and job training. Through Catholic Charities and local parishes, the church is frequently the help of last resort for illegal immigrants in need. It should not be made an arm of the immigration police as well.

Cardinal Mahony's declaration of solidarity with illegal immigrants, for whom Lent is every day, is a startling call to civil disobedience, as courageous as it is timely. We hope it forestalls the day when works of mercy become a federal crime.

[XOMichelle]

To call your congressmen and tell them to vote NO-- Very important!!

http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm


From the ACLU:
http://www.aclu.org/natsec/gen/22371leg20051207.html
Quotes:
"Expedited removal is currently being applied to non-citizens arriving at airports with apparently improper documents, to non-citizens arriving by sea, and a few other narrow categories of non-citizens.
Even as currently applied, expedited removal has resulted in terrible mistakes, including its wrongful application to genuine refugees and even to US citizens."

"H.R. 4437 also would erode even further the basic rights of immigrants to judicial review, even by the constitutionally-guaranteed writ of habeas corpus. H.R. 4437 would criminalize all violations of immigration law, with very serious consequences for genuine refugees and others who qualify for humanitarian relief."

[Kevin]

XOMichelle, part of coming to this country in good faith requires that one respect the laws of this country. By breaking the law simply by being here, these folks aren't showing that good faith and in my mind don't deserve an iota of support.

I agree that private charities shouldn't be regulated as to who they can serve. I do think, however, that social services ought to be limited to those who have a legal right to be here, pay taxes, etc.

What you are saying is that it's okay to strain the social services and criminal justice systems of our border states to the extreme so that we may have low prices for fruit.

Also, your proposition says nothing about the relaxation of immigration standards making it easy for anyone who wants to be a law abiding worker in America to be exactly that. If your argument has to rely on half-truth and deception to hold water, there's a good chance that it's entirely bogus.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
XOMichelle, part of coming to this country in good faith requires that one respect the laws of this country. By breaking the law simply by being here, these folks aren't showing that good faith and in my mind don't deserve an iota of support.

I agree that private charities shouldn't be regulated as to who they can serve. I do think, however, that social services ought to be limited to those who have a legal right to be here, pay taxes, etc.

What you are saying is that it's okay to strain the social services and criminal justice systems of our border states to the extreme so that we may have low prices for fruit.

Also, your proposition says nothing about the relaxation of immigration standards making it easy for anyone who wants to be a law abiding worker in America to be exactly that. If your argument has to rely on half-truth and deception to hold water, there's a good chance that it's entirely bogus.

Not to mention that you can import fruit from Mexico, much like we do with quite a bit of our food products.

The best quote I saw on something like that was one guy talking about how they don't want to be criminals - ummm you broke the law by entering this country illegally already superstar.

Michelle are you doing this for your boyfriend?

-Rudey

[XOMichelle]

I think there are better ways, like enforcing employment laws on employers (ie take away the incentives).

[Rudey]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
I think there are better ways, like enforcing employment laws on employers (ie take away the incentives).

Either way it is illegal. Illegal is illegal.

And it's funny how you forgot to mention the fact that the bill includes a provision to legalize 11 million illegal aliens while allowing 400,000 new guest workers every year - the largest for several decades.

But I'm sure you didn't know about that and were just jumping on a pretty bandwagon.

-Rudey

[kddani]

I'm happy that I live in a part of the country where this isn't really as big of a problem as other places.

However, it has still affected my life. My uncle (that part of the family lives in Tulsa, OK) was killed by a drunk driving illegal immigrant from Mexico. The illegal immigrant fled the scene, and shortly thereafter fled the country before he could be caught.

There was a lot of red tape involved, and no one was ever punished for the death of my uncle. Apparantly this is a big problem in that part of the country.

So personally, it's hard for me to overcome my emotions on issues like this. I'm a fairly liberal person in general, but I do take a hard line on some things, and this is one of them.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
I think there are better ways, like enforcing employment laws on employers (ie take away the incentives).

I agree, we should lock up the people who employee illegals, but both the criminals and those who bring them here should be punished.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I agree, we should lock up the people who employee illegals, but both the criminals and those who bring them here should be punished.

Which this bill does as well. But I'm sure Michelle knew that as well as the fact that so many illegals would become legal now...right?

-Rudey

[BobbyTheDon]

Originally posted by kddani


However, it has still affected my life. My uncle (that part of the family lives in Tulsa, OK) was killed by a drunk driving illegal immigrant from Mexico. The illegal immigrant fled the scene, and shortly thereafter fled the country before he could be caught.

So personally, it's hard for me to overcome my emotions on issues like this. I'm a fairly liberal person in general, but I do take a hard line on some things, and this is one of them.

Jesus are you serious? Sorry about that.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by kddani
My uncle (that part of the family lives in Tulsa, OK) was killed by a drunk driving illegal immigrant from Mexico. The illegal immigrant fled the scene, and shortly thereafter fled the country before he could be caught.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Something very similar happened to one of my chapter sisters last year in Atlanta.

[kddani]

Originally posted by dzrose93
I'm so sorry for your loss. Something very similar happened to one of my chapter sisters last year in Atlanta.

Thank you (and Bobby, too).

It's just an example of how everything isn't all roses and light and puppy dogs when it comes to these kinds of topics.

It's nice to want to help people. But sometimes in doing so, you hurt others.

I guess it goes back to the old question- who should we be helping? Should we be helping ourselves and our own citizens? Or should we be helping others first?

[KSig RC]

Wait, here's what I've gotten out of this thread:

-The amount I save on produce is more than the amount used on social services for illegal workers.

(Wow - could I get a citation here? You're abusing a stereotype, or at the least a state-centric phenomenon, to rationalize a national policy? Just wow.)

-This bill will harm illegal aliens.

(Uh . . . )

-Taking away charitable acts will allow police to target the poor and non-white.

(I'm pretty sure the poor are not the ones in position to run these high-dollar charitable acts such as your volunteer clinic . . . in addition to the points Rudey has raised . . . plus what's this 'allow' stuff, aren't police already in a position to target poor, non-white, stupid, or whoever they please? Isn't that an issue with law enforcement, and not related to the bill at all?)

[KillarneyRose]

Illegal is illegal. Sometimes things actually are as cut and dried as they seem.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
Illegal is illegal. Sometimes things actually are as cut and dried as they seem.

Gee, why didn't I think of that?

As I said, it's a complex issue, but it really does come down to that.