The OFFICIAL "stop hiding behind slanted statements" sexism thread!

[KSig RC]

Here you go, everyone, feel free to vent in here - I'll start:

I don't really see an overwhelming amount of 'blaming the victim' on the site, except for a vocal minority. In some cases, even this vocal minority is not 'blaming' the victim but instead pointing out incongruous stories, lack of information, or tonal issues. These issues are all endemic to the 'message board' medium, and will never be solved, but should not be taken as "fuck women" in any way shape or form.

As far as 'men getting away with more' - that might be a valid point, but I'll infer that there is no large disparity between the number of men banned versus the number of women, at least not that I can see.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

This thread isn't nearly as fun as the other one.

[KSigkid]

I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I guess here would be the best place to talk about it. I also don't see the vast "women are always wrong" theme that other people see. What I see is that some people on this site are a little more cautious in branding someone as a stalker/rapist/etc. Maybe it's because they've had friends wrongly accused, or maybe they've been wrongly accused. I honestly don't know.

Now, does that constitute a bias against women on the site? I'd hope not. When members have come forward with problems they've been having, it seems like the overwhelming majority (both male and female) have been supportive and have attempted to be helpful.

Maybe I'm just missing something big here?

[Rudey]

Feminazis?

-Rudey

[AOPIHottie]

Originally posted by Rudey
Feminazis?

-Rudey

best word ever

[sugar and spice]

I don't think that the major problem with this board is misogyny. That doesn't mean I don't think men and women are treated equally -- but I think that just as much fault lies with the women as with the men. Think about the following situation: a poster on the board calls somebody by a nasty name, says something bad about another GLO, etc. If the original poster is a guy, what will happen to him? Probably not much. If the original poster is a girl, she will be bombarded by PMs and posts from her sisters and women in other sororities saying, "Oh, that's not nice, that's not ladylike, you're representing ABC, you're a bitch, you make us look like trash, etc. etc. etc." Women on this board are not nearly as likely to confront a guy who is acting badly as they are to confront a girl that behaves in the same way. I think that is what many of us were referring to when discussing the way different genders are treated on GC. There are only a small handful of men on GC that I would consider to be straight-up sexist or misogynist.


The rape issue is another thing entirely, really, and I think that it will be an issue that men and women will ALWAYS understand differently. Suffice it to say that no matter the intentions, many of the statements are taken the wrong way (on both sides). I.e., a guy says "There's a discrepancy in her story" -- many times, a girl will hear that as "Oh, she must be lying about the whole thing" when that may very well not be what he meant at all. The problem here lies, I think, in the fact that rape and sexual assault are immensely personal crimes, and almost all women are affected by them. It wouldn't be a jump to say that I don't know a single woman who hasn't been affected by rape (someone she knows well has been raped, etc.), and I don't know a single woman who hasn't been sexually assaulted at some point or another. (Obviously I haven't discussed this issue with every single woman I know, but every woman I HAVE discussed it with has had stories.) I think that most men don't understand -- or won't understand until later in life -- how deeply and widely the issue of rape affects women. And likewise, we can't fully understand how a false accusation would affect a man. Thus, any discussion on this topic is pretty much bound to be more emotional and personal than, say, a discussion about murder -- since most of us can't say that we know somebody who's been murdered or somebody who's been falsely accused of murder, etc.

[33girl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I don't know a single woman who hasn't been sexually assaulted at some point or another. (Obviously I haven't discussed this issue with every single woman I know, but every woman I HAVE discussed it with has had stories.)

I hope that you realized that the majority of the women on this board find that incomprehensible.

I mean, I've heard the "one in four" thing over and over, but this is just - I don't even have a word - astounding perhaps?

Of course, that depends on the definition of "assaulted" you are using. If a guy grabs my ass in a bar, I don't consider that assault - I consider that a guy who's going to get a swift kick. What I'm getting from your post is, you and every one of your female friends and acquaintances have either been raped or nearly raped.

I'm not saying you aren't telling the truth but, geez, I honestly have no idea what to say.

[33girl]

Oh, and to answer the original question.

I think if that post would have been from ktsnake or DeltAlum instead of James, no one would have had any problem with it.

There's a HUGE difference between blaming the victim and holding the victim accountable for what he/she does and says. If we've reached the state where a question or request for clarification (which, it seems to this observer, was no problem to the person being asked for same) is an accusation, we are in seriously deep shit.

[kddani]

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...ghlight=battle

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Originally posted by 33girl
I mean, I've heard the "one in four" thing over and over, but this is just - I don't even have a word - astounding perhaps?

I'm not saying you aren't telling the truth but, geez, I honestly have no idea what to say.

What she may have meant is that just about ALL women have had that unique feeling that comes with being sexually assualted. Yeah, a guy grabbing my ass at a bar isn't a big deal. The guy who keeps grabbing it at work? A little different. And you complain, but folks at work are saying, Well, she WAS flirting with him a lot there for awhile. And he says, You're just complaining because I don't take it even farther.

And suddenly you end up feeling kinda trashy and dirty and you're pretty sure you didn't do anything wrong to begin with, but it seems like it's a better idea to just let the whole thing go than make a huge stinking deal about what was really just an ass grab. But you're pretty sure you were right in the first place. And why is no one backing you up?



Maybe the point is just that sexual assualt IS, as was said earlier, an intensely personal experience. And it brings with it a lot of weird other-ness.... I mean, if a random guy came up to you in a bar and landed his foot squarely on your ass, and you turned around and clocked him, no one would say anything, right? But the same guy pinching it (still equally as unwelcome!) and you clocking him is going to get you a TOTALLY different reaction. She's a bitch, what's she expect at a bar, what's she expect when she's drinking, when she wears that out, etc.

ALMOST ALL guys are great. They don't hit or pinch or make women uncomfortable by doing inappropriate things. And we're lucky, we have so many great guys on this board and they offer a great juxtaposition on a discussion forum that ends up being completely overrun by estrogen sometimes. BUT, most guys haven't actually experienced sexual assualt, on any level.... and I think most women have, and that right there is going to skew this discussion because we're coming from such different places.

And yes. I know that's a really broad definition of sexual assualt. I don't know any better (shorter) way to describe, "being made to feel uncomfortable, intimidated, or abused in a sexual way."

[Rudey]

I think maybe some of the females on this website are very needy. Perhaps this is why they have these issues?

-Rudey
--It's a toss up between claiming rape and correcting your spelling for some women on GC hahaha

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by Rudey

-Rudey
--It's a toss up between claiming rape and correcting your spelling for some women on GC hahaha

Again, how is this funny?

[AGDee]

I think that "sexually harassed" would be a better term than "sexually assaulted". I think almost all women have experienced harassment, but I connote assault with rape. However, I just looked up some legal definitions and most of the definitions went like this:

Every state defines crimes like "rape" and "sexual assault" differently. However, the following acts are considered crimes in most states when they are committed with physical force or with a threat to hurt the victim or another person. These acts are also crimes if the victim is physically helpless and can't give consent. For example, when the victim is drunk or asleep and unable to refuse sex.


*Penetration of a victim's anus or vagina. The penetration may be by a body part, such as finger or penis, or by an object.
*Penetration of the victim's mouth by a man's penis.
*Intentionally touching a victim's intimate parts, such as buttocks, inner thigh, breasts, genital area. (or the clothing covering those body parts)
*Forcing a victim to touch someone else's intimate parts
*Cunnilingus: contact between the mouth of one person and the vulva of another.

So, using that definition, it would be sexual assault when someone grabs your bottom uninvited. I think that has happened to every female on the planet.

Dee

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Again, how is this funny?

Go hump a horse you gnarly little thing you.

-Rudey

[33girl]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
Yeah, a guy grabbing my ass at a bar isn't a big deal. The guy who keeps grabbing it at work? A little different. And you complain, but folks at work are saying, Well, she WAS flirting with him a lot there for awhile. And he says, You're just complaining because I don't take it even farther.

And suddenly you end up feeling kinda trashy and dirty and you're pretty sure you didn't do anything wrong to begin with, but it seems like it's a better idea to just let the whole thing go than make a huge stinking deal about what was really just an ass grab. But you're pretty sure you were right in the first place. And why is no one backing you up?

If you're in a workplace where a guy thinks he can grab your ass and not get fired - even if you're completely fine with it - that's not a safe working environment for women OR men.

I mean, I worked at a ski resort right after college. The environment was laid back, to say the least. The girls and guys were all single and in their 20's or early 30's - you do the math. Yes, stuff was going on consensually after hours, but I can assure you if our bosses would have ever seen ANYTHING like what you describe, the parties involved would have been fired then and there.

The most I've ever experienced is a guy looking at my legs and obviously liking what he saw. Did I feel gross? No. I took it as a compliment. Unless we all want to get into bags like John & Yoko, men and women are going to notice those things. I'm starting to feel like "OMG Jim probably thought I was hitting on him when I told him he smelled good and his wife's gonna find out and shoot me."