Counseling Psychologists/Family & Marriage Therapists HELP PLEASE!

[BirthaBlue4]

Okay, I want to be a counselor, specializing in Marriage and Family Therapy. I am 99.9% sure this is where I want to go with my counseling. Do you suggest I do a specialized program for MFT or should I just do the general Counseling Psych, and specialize with that? I know with a doctorate I get more money, but I don't even want to think about that yet. With a Master's degree, I need a minimum 2 years, 2,000 hours POST DEGREE before I can be fully liscensed or get a certificate (for the MFT and the LCPC). What types of locations/facilities would I have to work in in order to complete this requirement?

[winneythepooh7]

Have you considered getting an MSW degree? While it is not easy by any means, and there are rigorous field requirements, this degree doesn't sound as intensive as what you are describing, and SW's can basically work with ANY population. I don't know too much about the degree program you are discussing but I do have a friend who is getting her PHD in psych right now and it is VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY difficult. I think Psychtau (???) "may" have similar background/training regarding what you are asking.

[James]

They tend to overkill you a bit with education for those types of degrees.

In the end it comes down to how well you read people. Which is awful hard to learn.

Practicing bartending might not be a bad preparation. Or sales.

I am only half kidding.

[ncsudgalum04]

east carolina university has a very good MFT program. i applied and got an interview this spring, but unfortunately i didn't get accepted. they only take 12 people each fall and i think it's a good thing to have a lot of experience, which was what i lacked. i struggled with the same issue. maybe instead of getting a PHD, try going after a PsyD. I think those are less research intensive and more counseling based. i'm not sure though. it seems as though MFT is getting very popular now though. in one of my undergrad counseling classes, it seemed like most of the people in the class wanted to go into MFT. good luck though!

[winneythepooh7]

Originally posted by James
They tend to overkill you a bit with education for those types of degrees.

In the end it comes down to how well you read people. Which is awful hard to learn.

Practicing bartending might not be a bad preparation. Or sales.

I am only half kidding.

I think James is onto something. I really didn't get too much out of "book knowledge". It is all about people skills. EIther you have it in this field or you don't. You can memorize all the "theories" in the world but it comes down to how you can handle people in a crisis situation.

[msn4med1975]

Well since you asked for a counseling psychologist, who would actually know what you need to do, let me chime in here. I'm on my internship now and will complete my phd (in four years thank God) next summer.

The others are right in that with JUST a MA degree you can work with anyone (same is true for phd work of course) if you use a general degree. A social work degree is NOT the same as a MA in counseling and while some agencies will hire you others will not because they want you to have specific training that is not typically a part of social work programs, ie learning how to use the diagnositic manual that most insurance companies expect diagnoses to come from so they can reimburse you--it may seem minor but we are about to have to train all the social workers on staff on an instrument that I've been using for six years now and they have essentially never utilized.

You can work with an LPC, or similar license, in most states but you also have to pay for weekly supervision (unless it's part of your compensation package and that usually lowers your salary) while you get your two thousand hours and I believe have be under someone else's direct supervision after that indefinitely--meaning it's doubtful you'd be able to do private practice work unless a licensed psychologist was willing to supervise you indefinitely. Once you get the phd you work for a year longer than you would for the LPC to meet your hours requirement but that officially ends you needing any type of supervision from that point on when you get licensed.

As far as specialization goes, just note that the more specialized the degree is the more restricted your career options become in some sense. I could have done a sports psych phd but it wouldn't have given me the more generalized training I would need to do what I want to do now and that is focus on more family concerns, emotional disorders and the like. By picking up cognates (doctoral majors essentially) I still got the specific information I needed without jeapordizing my training experience and future marketibility.

Depending on your area a two to four year (for those folks that are working full time and can't attend classes like other students) may be your best option. But if you were going to do that (and then tack on AT LEAST another 18 months to finish the 2000 hours typically) you might as well consider a MA/PhD program which is anywhere between 5 and 7 years usually and then there's no starting over in a new program with new issues if you decide the PhD was really what you wanted. And it's not just about the potential earning power either, I can do anything now from run a college counseling center to teach college to be a contract psychologist for the military if I wanted to. It would be difficult at best for me to do that with a MA or a MSW. And I understand everyone's concern that school is hard but if it was easy then you'd have a lot of less qualified people out there harming other folks who really need help.

[winneythepooh7]

Originally posted by ncsudgalum04
east carolina university has a very good MFT program. i applied and got an interview this spring, but unfortunately i didn't get accepted. they only take 12 people each fall and i think it's a good thing to have a lot of experience, which was what i lacked. i struggled with the same issue. maybe instead of getting a PHD, try going after a PsyD. I think those are less research intensive and more counseling based. i'm not sure though. it seems as though MFT is getting very popular now though. in one of my undergrad counseling classes, it seemed like most of the people in the class wanted to go into MFT. good luck though!

That is so true about many programs. It seems that these days everyone is seemingly going into counseling and social work. Due to this many schools are bombared with applications so they are increasingly choosey about who they take. (Especially public schools which tend to have cheaper tuition). As a rule though I think if you have demonstrated interest and committment to this field, you will most likely get in. From what I am hearing a lot of INTERNSHIPS are becoming more choosey in who they take. Case in point, my first year field placement traditionally would take students with NO experience in the field. They have learned over the years that this is difficult because of the complex problems these clients are dealing with (usually both legal and mental health related). Because of this my former field instructor is requesting only 2nd year students. Random blurb though........Continue on..........

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by winneythepooh7
I think James is onto something. I really didn't get too much out of "book knowledge". It is all about people skills. EIther you have it in this field or you don't. You can memorize all the "theories" in the world but it comes down to how you can handle people in a crisis situation.

Every client you have isn't in crisis and those that are usually need to have that resolved before any work is done. Yes it helps if you have good intuitive skills that are CORRECT. But some folks infer based on faulty data that they somehow attribute to the client which just causes more trouble. And those "theories" should be your basis for intervention because if not you are flying by the seat of your pants and while that usually won't mean a thing the one time it is a mistake could be a DIRE mistake.

[winneythepooh7]

Originally posted by msn4med1975
ie learning how to use the diagnositic manual that most insurance companies expect diagnoses to come from so they can reimburse you--it may seem minor but we are about to have to train all the social workers on staff on an instrument that I've been using for six years now and they have essentially never utilized.

This isn't necessarily true. I have extensive knowledge with the DSMIV. Maybe it's because my specialty lies in mental health. It is so important getting this training as a Social Worker. Unfortunately, unless you are a clinical major, it is not emphasized.

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by winneythepooh7
This isn't necessarily true. I have extensive knowledge with the DSMIV. Maybe it's because my specialty lies in mental health. It is so important getting this training as a Social Worker. Unfortunately, unless you are a clinical major, it is not emphasized.

How is it not true lol when you just said the clinical specialty is what made sure you knew how to use the DSM? It's not training that I believe most social work programs push. At least not with the individuals here or the ones that I know with social work degrees. Many have taught themselves the DSM by necessity but it was not a core component of their training.

[winneythepooh7]

Originally posted by msn4med1975
Every client you have isn't in crisis and those that are usually need to have that resolved before any work is done. Yes it helps if you have good intuitive skills that are CORRECT. But some folks infer based on faulty data that they somehow attribute to the client which just causes more trouble. And those "theories" should be your basis for intervention because if not you are flying by the seat of your pants and while that usually won't mean a thing the one time it is a mistake could be a DIRE mistake.

I know this. My point was that "some" people think that just because you went to class and read the texts you know how to work with people. This isn't true at all.

[winneythepooh7]

Originally posted by msn4med1975
because if not you are flying by the seat of your pants and while that usually won't mean a thing the one time it is a mistake could be a DIRE mistake.

I am currently cleaning up "mistakes" from a former co-worker with my clients. He had no advanced degree, (not even a BA). In the MSW program, extensive training is given on how OUR values influence the work with the client, and often can bring harm onto them. He always acted from his "gut" without the knowledge of harmful outcomes. For example, he told a couple with both mental retardation and mental illness and limited functioning ability in the community who wanted to live together that "it was wrong to live together because it was not appropriate in the eyes of God and they should get married instead". He never consulted their residences, psychiatrist, therapist---anyone. They basically ran off and got married and now are living in nothing less than a crack house where they are mentally and physically abused every day, food, money stolen, etc. He also went and hired a private detective to locate the family member of one of my other client's that she hadn't seen in 20 years after she brought this up ONCE in a "session". Again, he didn't consult the treatment team. She has been showing signs of increased depression and her residence didn't know why until I pointed out about this taking place prior to my coming to their program. I guess where I am trying to go with this is that the KNOWLEDGE you gain from any advanced degree program in this field in important. Psychologists and Social Workers are trained completely differently though and often are in battle with each other because of our different schools of thought.

[winneythepooh7]

Originally posted by msn4med1975
How is it not true lol when you just said the clinical specialty is what made sure you knew how to use the DSM? It's not training that I believe most social work programs push. At least not with the individuals here or the ones that I know with social work degrees. Many have taught themselves the DSM by necessity but it was not a core component of their training.

Which is why Social Workers are Social Workers and Psychiatrists/Psychologists are Psychiatrists/Psychologists. You work in the MEDICAL model, we don't diagnose clients, prescribe medication, etc. (Although if you work in mental health as a SW you become pretty good at this). I don't think this thread is supposed to be about which profession is "better" or "more knowledgeable" which is the tone I think you are trying to set. The woman was just asking for info about a program.............So let's get back to the original question.

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by winneythepooh7
Which is why Social Workers are Social Workers and Psychiatrists/Psychologists are Psychiatrists/Psychologists. You work in the MEDICAL model, we don't diagnose clients, prescribe medication, etc. (Although if you work in mental health as a SW you become pretty good at this). I don't think this thread is supposed to be about which profession is "better" or "more knowledgeable" which is the tone I think you are trying to set. The woman was just asking for info about a program.............So let's get back to the original question.

Please be accurate when you speak on my field. Psychology is not oriented to a MEDICAL model. Psychiatry is and we are in perpetual conflict with them over it. We diagnose only when we have to (at least from my training program) and we use medication when it's the only way to address the issue at hand. I never made it into a SW versus Psychology debate (at least that wasn't my intent, you've been the one analyzing each of my posts) I gave her the information from the COUNSELING PSYCHOLOGY field and the benefits I see in my degree.

We don't have to agree, heck we don't agree, but I believe my original post outlined potential drawbacks with any degree. MSW may not have as much training but it may feel (only to that individual) to be an easier program to get through. MFT is a good program but it limits your job options. A phd in Counseling Psych, not clinical so I can't speak to what they know more than my personal interactions with them, provides good training and opens up a number of career options for me but is very time intensive and everyone doesn't make it through okay. Again the information is out there, it's my opinion on the options from the viewpoint of someone in the field that was requested.

[BirthaBlue4]

Thanks you guys for sufficiently scaring me LOL.

The time involved is WAY more than I ever thought it would be, and being that I already have a chgild, I really don't know if this will really be the right route. I have to REALLY think about this, especially since it looks like I'll need a PhD just to get ahead....

But I GREATLY appreciate the feedback from those in the field. Social work doesn't really fit my interests, so that wouldn't work, plus the available jobs for social workers in my area are few and far between, my soror has a MSW and her license, and she can't find anything new. Now all the jobs want social workers that have the next license that she can't get yet. SO that's not for me.

I still have to figure this all out