your input on panhellenic problem

[PrincessHeather]

I couldn't decide if this belonged in Rush, here, or somewhere else... (its gonna be long. sorry!)

Anyway, Here is what is going on:

I attend a smaller school with only two national sororities. We have had our problems with panhellenic because a lot of our problems are approached as 'us against them' situations. We are really trying to work with the other national, but the two groups are very different. One of our biggest differences deals with recruitment. We are trying really hard but here is some background:

ABC always takes quota. And with a campus total of 35, the chapter hits that number either through formal or with COB in the spring. XYZ has never taken quota. This last fall was the largest group of women they have taken during formal. They are also very close to total for the first time. (which is awesome!)

Our Panhel's Constitution and Bylaws were edited and given to the chapters at the end of the fall semester. It was passed by one group and then not passed by the other (due to one section). That section is in our Bylaws regarding COB. Since Panhellenic's inception at my school COB has started the second Monday after formal recruitment. Well the change was to move it up to the Monday directly following formal recruitment in the fall. The reason it was not passed by ABC chapter was because of various reasons.

ABC feels the other does not fully devote themselves to recruitment. ABC works really hard at formal recruitment. In the past it has been so bad that PNMs didn't understand what ABC meant when ABC would to talk about XYZ while recruiting out in the quad (as in: their philanthropy is this, their meetings are on mondays, and etc.) Then at rush parties the PNMs would state, "I didn't even know that their were two national sororities".

One year XYZ was not out in the quad during formal recruitment but in the same year two weeks later, XYZ went all out with COB. They work really hard at COB. They had matching shirts, flyers, posters, and sisters constantly in the quad during the start of COB. This wouldn't be a problem if the same approach was used during formal recruitment. XYZ says that they hate doing COB, but the way they present themselves to ABC makes the other group think otherwise.

By ABC voting no on the change in COB, they are being accused of inhibiting XYZ's recruitment. Is this true? This has been stated by the XYZ chapter and by the panhellenic advisor.
But...Wouldn't XYZ be hurting ABC also, by not helping during formal recruitment?

XYZ's main argument is that their rules are really strict on who they can give bids to, so they can't take many people during formal recruitment.

Along with the new changes, there was a proposition to impose a fine to any chapter that does not have members at the panhellenic tables during informal and formal recruitment. It was passed by both groups. Now, that there is this huge discussion (that has been going on since Feb.) about COB, XYZ decided they want to change their vote for the fining. They don't think it is right, because their chapter does not fine. (yet they passed this a month earlier)

So my questions are:
When does your school's COBing start? (the green book says it can occur anywhere after the week and no later than the 3 weeks after formal recruitment. I am almost 100% positive on that)

What ideas do you have to get the other national involved with formal recruitment?

And do you think it is right for the other national to change their mind on changes they have already passed? What can panhellenic do to fix this problem?

Both groups Nationals have been contacted on the issue. Both Nationals have talked together about the issue. Most likely it looks like ABC is going to have to let COB be moved up by a week. Which, in spirit is fine, because you want all groups to grow and have members but you want things to be fair.

[shadokat]

If XYZ doesn't want to go all out during formal recruitment, they are certainly entitled to that opinion. If they want to go all out for COB, they can do that as well.

At my university, COB started the day after bid day. All of the sororities participate in COB as total is set too high for the campus, but that's another story. Most groups PREFER to get their new members from the formal recruitment process, just because the women "come to you" as opposed to going out and finding COBs.

I don't think the COB change will affect numbers in general, as ABC does well during formal, while XYZ does during COB. I'm not sure about the "change" of voting. I wouldn't think you could change your vote after the fact, but you could bring the issue up again maybe for a revote?

Just a thought...

[MooseGirl]

Maybe it's time to contact your NPC area advisor, and your panhellenic delegate(which I guess you've done).

From changes that are happening in NPC right now, you may find that you could have a less structured recruitment and still work together...

Of course I don't think it's fair the one group changing their vote, but they have the right to do so (if the issue is brought back up to council)

On my campus we also have just 2 NPC groups - we don't do formal recruitment. Neither of us wants to do it, and we are both more successful doing COB. We both do COB year round, usually after a period of informal recruitment in September.

My question, why is ABC so set on formal? Do they think they won't find as many interested women? And if XYZ isn't helping out in formal, how is that a disadvantage to ABC? (other than extra workload - the point being the PNMs see one chapter working harder than another)

Personally, I'm biased against formal, but that's because it has never worked on my campus, but I do realize it is a necessity on many other campuses.

So i guess i'm not much help

[nyrdrms]

You mentioned that XYZ has stricter rules about who they can extend bids to and so they don't get as high of a number at the end....my question is does your school use release figures? If not, is XYZ still using them? This would make it more difficult for XYZ to reach quota if they are working under different rules. I know at my school we had a problem for a few years of one organization having very small numbers during formal recruitment but doing extremely well with COB. The problem was that our school did not use release figures, but the national representatives from that organization would come down during formal recruitment and require them to use release figures....which was a disadvantage to them.

As far as COBing goes, my organization hasn't done it for a while... But I believe that my school allows it to start immediately following bid day and the end date would depend entirely upon your organizations own bylaws. There was one group that took it literally and CONTINOUSLY extended bids, they would just have more than one new member class a semester since the new member period had to last a certain amount of time. I've also seen bids extended continously and have new members held over until the next new member class came in.

It might not be a bad idea to suggest that XYZ contact another XYZ chapter near them to practice formal recruitment....practice conversations, dealing with different types of girls (ones who don't speak much they just give yes and no answers, ones that talk about nothing but boys and drinking, ones that can't stop talking about ABC, etc) because the problem might be that they don't know how to deal with some of these situations. If there isn't another XYZ chapter nearby, they could ask alum to come in and help or maybe even ask ABC if they would be willing to help.

As for changing their minds on a previously decided issue, I have to agree with what was said earlier about having to bring up a new motion to amend the standing rule.

[adpiucf]

With only two sororities, why not move to COB for both?

[aopinthesky]

Originally posted by nyrdrms
my question is does your school use release figures? If not, is XYZ still using them? This would make it more difficult for XYZ to reach quota if they are working under different rules.

They shouldn't be working under different rules if they are both participating in Formal Recruitment (which is the only time release figures would come into play, probably). Release figures are dictated by the local Panhellenic involving a formula based on how many PNM's elected to attend a certain group's party in the previous years. It does, in some cases, level the playing field if a group is getting dropped a lot by the PNM's. I agree with the poster who suggested that maybe both groups go to COR or COB rather than formal recruitment. Sometimes formal just doesn't work that well, especially if there are only 2 groups.

[bruinaphi]

Under the Unanimous Agreements it is not within a Panhellenic's ability to restrict a chapter's ability to COB, time-wise, even if they put it in the bylaws. You will often hear this rule reiterated as "a chapter has a right to COB to fill any Total or Quota opportunities during the school year." This rule is fundamental to the fairness of our membership recruitment process and Quota Total system.

The Greenbook is very clear that the only time a moratorium can be placed on COB is when a new group is colonizing or the College Pahellenic wants to enable a stuggling chapter to COB all alone, and even then three weeks is supposed to be the maximum. There is no reason COB cannot or should not begin the moment formal bids are distributed.

Regarding fines: NPC discourages fining for infractions. The Greenbook provides on page 5 of the Judicial Procedures Section that "The purpose of the Panhellenic Membership Recruitment rules is to encourage a cooperative spirit rather than punish people who do not follow the rules." Fining as a course of action for an infraction of an attendance rule is a punishment, not an educational course of action.

Good luck on resolving these issues!

[Glitter650]

Yeah Heather.... knowing a bit about your campus I have heard about your strugles... but I have to say Bruin A PHi is right... COB should begin the moment after formal bids are extended... it makes more sense that way you can have ladies go through the NM process as part of the class that got bids on formal bid day... I don't see that it would hurt the group that does well during formal to let them COB as soon as formal is over. I do agree that the chapter doing less to get girls to formal should have some sort of repercussion... although it seems to be kicking the group in the pants because they DON'T do well during Formal... they are kinda letting themselves down by not doing the PRE- rush stuff of fliers tabling etc... which I kwow is necessary I know fines aren't "panhellenic" but I for one am kinda sick of having no real way to enforce Panhell rules... but maybe that's just my campus...

[PrincessHeather]

Thanks everyone for responding!

There has been talk about not doing formal, but that wouldn't happen. I think we can work through the issues.

The panhel meeting isn't until next week, but its almost a for sure that COB will be moved up. Really it shouldn't be a problem at all, but its so frustrating here. Hopefully the fight will finally end...

and it is true if XYZ wants to focus on COB, then so be it. that is their choice. I think just the struggle with one group doing all the work to have another benefit just doesn't seem fair.

with the fining, it was a last resort, but a lot of XYZ's members are very vocal about not wanting to be out there, not caring and that sort of thing. Something should be done. I don't think its very 'panhellenic' of them to not participate in getting women to attend recruitment, but then take members.

but, if the group that rushes hard at formal, adopted this attitude too... things would be very pointless which ties back into just conducting COB instead of formal.

talk about unnecessary drama. sssesssh. But thanks again!