Redskins = Racism

Disclaimer: All racial terms in this post are being used in a discussionary manner, and are not directed towards any persons

Ok, so i've been thinking about this a lot.

I think we would all agree that if a team or school chose the name "Darkies", "Coloreds" or "N-words" for a team mascot that it would be EXTREMELY offensive and there would be an enormous uproar in this country. I'm sure the ACLU and Jesse Jackson and his cronies would be all over it.

So, why is it that the term "Redskins" isn't given a passing thought? Native American groups have been protesting the use of native-themed mascots for years and the Redskins in particular for at least a decade, yet the so called advocates for equality haven't rallied to their side. When the issue did go to district court, it was ruled that the Redskins could keep their name, because the protesting groups waited too long to challenge it. (the team being named in 1967). Does that make it right? I guarantee that if we had the SF "Slopes" that had been formed back then their name wouldn't have survived the case.

To many NA's this name is the utmost of offensive. It refers to a time when NA's were considered less than human and trappers were paid for their scalps in the same vein as beaver and bear pelts.

Y'all know that i'm not a hippie liberal by any stretch of the imagination, but this is something that i truly think is wrong and needs to be changed.

Kitso
KS 361

[sugar and spice]

Kitso, stop making everything into a race issue!

I think the biggest problem is that no matter how big of a protest people come up with in favor of changing the name, the counterprotest will be bigger. People grew up with the Redskins and don't react well to change. That's the problem with changing the names to any of these teams. I don't think it has anything to do with the time between the name change and filing the complaint; I think it has to do with the fact that they know more people will get angry if they force the name change than if they don't.

I agree with you, though. I think that while team mascots like "Indians" and "Braves" are sketchy and borderline, Redskins is pretty blatantly offensive and needs to go.

[mu_agd]

my school used to be the Redskins. the reason why that name had been choses was because the land the school is on was bought from the Miami Indian tribes and they picked that name together. during the 90's, the school got a lot of heat from people saying that the use of the Redskins wasn't PC and that they should change it. after a lot of debate, in 96 or 97, they changed that nickname to the Redhawks, amidst much protest from students, alumni, and staff. i think that the bookstores loved it though, because my siter, myself, and the majority of the miami students and alumni all have shirts now that say "I am and always will be a Redskin".

[aurora_borealis]

I agree with you on this one. The names should have been changed a long time ago. I know my sister went to a school that had Indians as their mascot, and she graduated in the late 1980's. It was changed in the early 90s to the Cardinals. I also remember when I was at UAF, one of the other CCHA hockey teams had Indians at their mascot. I think it may have been Miami University (mu_agd don't hesitate to correct me), but looking at the CCHA page now, none of the mascots are Native American related at all. I know it was one of teams we played, as it came up in coversation at a game with some other students. As Native Alaskans and Native Americans it bothered them and they considered making a statement with their displeasure when that team came by writing a letter to the student paper, and not coming to the game. It wouldn't have been an obnoxious protest, as that wasn't the style of these folks. However this girl said in ALL seriousness "Well we play Notre Dame, they are the fighting Irish, and that offends ME because I am Irish!!!". We knew trying to explain the differences would make her little brain explode.

Playing off that girl, I am Norwegian and having "Viking" as a mascot doesn't bother me. Why? Because we as a people haven't been exploited, decimated and almost wiped out in our own lands. My school mascot now is closely related to a Viking and since the whole situation is different, I have almost a sense of pride. There are a lot of mascots schools could let the current students and alumni choose from that could represent them individually. I know with UAF we were the "nanooks" which is a polar bear, but the Native tradition was honored since we used Nanook instead.

To be the Devil's Advocate John, how do you feel about the use of "Rebel" and the Stars and Bars for school mascots? My cousins all attended the same "south" side highschool in a town, and they are "The Rebels". A student from another school's team was offended by that and refused to play there until it changed. They ditched the Stars and Bars but they still have "Johnny Reb" as a mascot.

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Kitso, stop making everything into a race issue!

I don't think it has anything to do with the time between the name change and filing the complaint; I think it has to do with the fact that they know more people will get angry if they force the name change than if they don't.

but this is a serious race issue.

and here's a link to the ruling

NFL Team can keep Redskins Trademark

pay particular attention to the last line:

In her 84 page decision, issued late Tuesday, Kollar-Kotelly also found that the plaintiffs waited too long to make their claims under the law, which was in effect when the Redskins trademarks were registred in 1967

Kitso
KS 361

[mu_agd]

Originally posted by aurora_borealis
. I also remember when I was at UAF, one of the other CCHA hockey teams had Indians at their mascot. I think it may have been Miami University (mu_agd don't hesitate to correct me), but looking at the CCHA page now, none of the mascots are Native American related at all.

Annie, that is correct and that is the school i was talking about in my post.

[aurora_borealis]

mu_agd - I saw these banners in the arena in 2000!!! Let's hope they have UPDATED them by now. I know Fairbanks was behind the times compared to Anchorage and the Lower 48, but DANG.

Originally posted by aurora_borealis

Playing off that girl, I am Norwegian and having "Viking" as a mascot doesn't bother me. Why? Because we as a people haven't been exploited, decimated and almost wiped out in our own lands.

To be the Devil's Advocate John, how do you feel about the use of "Rebel" and the Stars and Bars for school mascots? My cousins all attended the same "south" side highschool in a town, and they are "The Rebels". A student from another school's team was offended by that and refused to play there until it changed. They ditched the Stars and Bars but they still have "Johnny Reb" as a mascot.

You said how i feel in that first paragraph. The Confederates were not exploited, decimated, wiped out, taken from their traditional lands, placed into reservations, had their heritage stolen and mocked, etc.

I do think the stars and bars should not be used in any logos. It is highly offensive to fellow Americans and i will honor their wishes that it not be displayed.

Kitso
KS 361

Originally posted by mu_agd
my school used to be the Redskins. the reason why that name had been choses was because the land the school is on was bought from the Miami Indian tribes and they picked that name together

So,

If i purchased land on a former plantation from the decendants of the slave that worked there i could call my team the Darkies?

Not right, at all.

Kitso
KS 361

[GeekyPenguin]

I'm totally opposed to changing the names. I don't think they're deragatory. My high school mascot was the Warhawks, and people complained all the time that it was offensive - not so much! I hardly ever saw merchandise with a NA on it except for old stuff passed down from older siblings/parents - everything had a big Arrowhead on it.

The reason I hate changing - my university used to be the Warriors, and there was a huge sense of pride in being a Marquette Warrior. Now we're the "Golden Eagles" which is about the most boring mascot ever. No wonder our main cheer is "WE ARE MARQUETTE" rather than something with the generic one.

I don't think either of my schools intended to offend, and I'm glad my high school hasn't wimped out and changed it over. They'd have to change the school name too, if they want to change the mascot. An Arrowhead is probably offensive too.

And do you guys think I can sue Notre Dame? Because not all Irish are Fightin'.

[mu_agd]

Originally posted by aurora_borealis
mu_agd - I saw these banners in the arena in 2000!!! Let's hope they have UPDATED them by now. I know Fairbanks was behind the times compared to Anchorage and the Lower 48, but DANG.

i would hope so! i started at Miami in 1998 and we were already the Redhawks then. Although, when i graduated, Miami did still have the old symbol used in certain places on campus, just for the history of it. They had been known as Redskins for so long. It's a bit hard to just whipe that out at one meeting.

[PM_Mama00]

If someone used the name the "Mafias" or "Italians", it wouldn't bother me. I'd be kind of excited.

But if someone chose the "Dagos" or "Wops" I'd be offended because it's slang and meant to offend.

I think that it shouldn't matter about time or who would be against teh change... if it is offensive to a people, it should be changed.

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I'm totally opposed to changing the names. I don't think they're deragatory. My high school mascot was the Warhawks, and people complained all the time that it was offensive - not so much! I hardly ever saw merchandise with a NA on it except for old stuff passed down from older siblings/parents - everything had a big Arrowhead on it.

And do you guys think I can sue Notre Dame? Because not all Irish are Fightin'.

This is the Irony Police, pull this post over.

Not all Irish are fightin'? Well, not all NA's are Warring and violent peoples. Why is it OK to paint NA's with that brush but not the Irish?

PLEASE do not compare the plight of ANY anglo immigrants to this country to the devastation suffered by the indiginous people of two continents at their hands.

Kitso
KS 361 times i seriously think that you just look to disagree with anything i post

[mu_agd]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
So,

If i purchased land on a former plantation from the decendants of the slave that worked there i could call my team the Darkies?

Not right, at all.

Kitso
KS 361

well, the founders of Miami and the Miami Indian Tribe came up with that together. There is a whole written document signed by them in which the Miami Indians gave there permission and support to use that. The symbol and the name had been used to signify the ties that the school had with the tribe. To this day Miami University and the Miami Indian Tribe are very close with exchange programs happening all the time.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
If i purchased land on a former plantation from the decendants of the slave that worked there i could call my team the Darkies?

Far be it from me to say anything good about our arch-rival Miami of Ohio, however, I think her point -- which I've heard from a number of friends from there -- is that the school mascot was named in conjunction with the local tribe. In other words, the Miami Indians were consulted and considered it an honor.

Times do change, but I believe the university still has ties with the tribe, and has the chief on campus yearly if not more often. Or at least they did the last time I had this conversation with a good friend who is on the local Miami Alumni Chapter here in Denver.

edit

Obviously, I was typing my response at the same time the one above was being posted, but they seem to agree with each other.