Tent Talk & "Bottom-Tier" Houses

[Wynter]

Tent talk and "bottom" houses during recruitment are inevitable. There's no way to stop it, little way to control it. I mean, you can't control freedom of speech and you can't stop girls from forming opinions.

But it still really gets to me.

Mostly because tent talk is a form of group-think, and usually results in certain chapters hurting from an unfair, sensationalized reputation. It also results in certain chapters getting "dogpiled" with girls that want them, resulting in even more hurt feelings.

I'm basically just venting here, because I've seen a lot of things at my large, competitive Greek university that are quite difficult to watch. (I know similar things happen at less competitive, smaller schools as well). And it makes me wonder if there are ways to alleviate these problems.

At my school (which I will keep private for now to protect everyone's identity), chapter A, B and C are considered the "top tier" houses. During recruitment it often seems they're the ones that every girl has her heart set on, and they get talked up quite a bit. Now these chapters are, like the rest of the ones at my school, excellent and full of amazing women I am proud to call friends. They work their butts off to pull off an awesome recruitment and deserve to be popular. But I can't help but feeling uncomfortable when...

The "bottom tier" chapters suffer. It's not necessarily directly related to the popularity of A, B and C, but at the end of it I think it all has something to do with tent talk and group-think.

I'm not in a so-called "bottom tier" chapter (I really hate that term, but it's a term that is often used), but I have close friends in all of them. In my opinion they are unfairly stigmatized just because they aren't quite as "shiny" as the most popular houses on the surface. Like the rest of the sororities, they work hard, are super involved on campus and are full of beautiful, fun and friendly women.

I was a recruitment counselor last fall and witnessed some truly horrible things said. I was far from shocked or even surprised, but I couldn't help being miffed. Several PNMs in my group started bragging about getting invited back to A, B and/or C, and conversely putting down D, E and F (the "bottom" tiers), going as to far to criticize the sisters themselves and make fun of them. Despite my efforts to try and correct them gently, it continued and resulted in several grief-stricken PNMs confiding in me that they felt really bad about not getting the "houses they really wanted" and might drop out altogether.

What was strange was that before the houses became so stigmatized, these same girls in my group seemed to genuinely like (as far as I could tell...I could be mistaken) D, E and F, and I'd watched them come out of said chapters with huge smiles on their faces. I'd also heard them praising the so-called "bottom tier" chapters...but as soon as the real tent talk began and the "top groups" started getting formed, suddenly PNMs' opinions took an odd and sudden turn for the worse. And as a result, potential sisters for the "bottom chapters" with less girls would start to drop. At the same time, I witnessed some of the bragging PNMs getting cut from their top picks and dropping out as well.

Now I realize that maybe these PNMs weren't right for Greek life, as some of my friends have suggested...I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the competitive recruitment process causes girls act out of character or feel like they're not themselves due to all the pressure. But regardless, I can't help feeling like tent talk and behind-the-scenes rankings are detrimental to Greek life in general.

Sorry for the essay! I just wanted to share my experiences and hear everyone's thoughts.

[KSUViolet06]

Here's the thing with tent talk, no one cares until it's them.

Interestingly enough, Smallest Chapter That Everyone Makes Fun Of is usually talked about the most by the chapter that is just a little bit bigger than them. Generally not by the Top Dog chapters.

Slightly Larger doesn't usually see what Smallest does in terms of propping up their reputations. Ex: Girls can say, "I got a bid from Slightly Larger, but at least it's not Smallest."

Slightly Larger doesn't realize that if Smaller Chapter closes, someone else will become the low man on the totem pole, and it's most likely going to be them.

[Wynter]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Here's the thing with tent talk, no one cares until it's them.

Interestingly enough, Smallest Chapter That Everyone Makes Fun Of is usually talked about the most by the chapter that is just a little bit bigger than them. Generally not by the Top Dog chapters.

Slightly Larger doesn't usually see what Smallest does in terms of propping up their reputations. Ex: Girls can say, "I got a bid from Slightly Larger, but at least it's not Smallest."

Slightly Larger doesn't realize that if Smaller Chapter closes, someone else will become the low man on the totem pole, and it's most likely going to be them.

Ugh, that's rough. It makes sense though.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Here's the thing with tent talk, no one cares until it's them.

Interestingly enough, Smallest Chapter That Everyone Makes Fun Of is usually talked about the most by the chapter that is just a little bit bigger than them. Generally not by the Top Dog chapters.

Slightly Larger doesn't usually see what Smallest does in terms of propping up their reputations. Ex: Girls can say, "I got a bid from Slightly Larger, but at least it's not Smallest."

Slightly Larger doesn't realize that if Smaller Chapter closes, someone else will become the low man on the totem pole, and it's most likely going to be them.

Here's the thing "Slightly Larger" never seems to realize - bashing "Smallest" doesn't make "Slightly Larger" any better. In fact, they only come across as catty witches, and it can make P-PNMs think that all sorority girls are mean girls and witches. That only makes PNMs more likely to drop out of recruitment
if they don't get dream chapter (who - of course - couldn't be witches.)

[Wynter]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Here's the thing "Slightly Larger" never seems to realize - bashing "Smallest" doesn't make "Slightly Larger" any better. In fact, they only come across as catty witches, and it can make P-PNMs think that all sorority girls are mean girls and witches. That only makes PNMs more likely to drop out of recruitment
if they don't get dream chapter (who - of course - couldn't be witches.)

Yeah, that bothers me. Maybe better relations between houses (making more of an effort to stay off nasty sites like Greekrank and having sorority/sorority mixers and events) would help, but if recruitment is competitive, I guess insecurities and jealousies are bound to play into it.

Our sorority has had events with other sororities, little getting-to-know you things, and I think it's increased our sense of Greek community. Too often we stay inside our own cliquey bubbles within Greek life and forget we all should be working together!

[Old_Row]

Originally Posted by Wynter

Tent talk and "bottom" houses during recruitment are inevitable. There's no way to stop it, little way to control it. I mean, you can't control freedom of speech and you can't stop girls from forming opinions.

But it still really gets to me.

Mostly because tent talk is a form of group-think, and usually results in certain chapters hurting from an unfair, sensationalized reputation. It also results in certain chapters getting "dogpiled" with girls that want them, resulting in even more hurt feelings.

I'm basically just venting here, because I've seen a lot of things at my large, competitive Greek university that are quite difficult to watch. (I know similar things happen at less competitive, smaller schools as well). And it makes me wonder if there are ways to alleviate these problems.

At my school (which I will keep private for now to protect everyone's identity), chapter A, B and C are considered the "top tier" houses. During recruitment it often seems they're the ones that every girl has her heart set on, and they get talked up quite a bit. Now these chapters are, like the rest of the ones at my school, excellent and full of amazing women I am proud to call friends. They work their butts off to pull off an awesome recruitment and deserve to be popular. But I can't help but feeling uncomfortable when...

The "bottom tier" chapters suffer. It's not necessarily directly related to the popularity of A, B and C, but at the end of it I think it all has something to do with tent talk and group-think.

I'm not in a so-called "bottom tier" chapter (I really hate that term, but it's a term that is often used), but I have close friends in all of them. In my opinion they are unfairly stigmatized just because they aren't quite as "shiny" as the most popular houses on the surface. Like the rest of the sororities, they work hard, are super involved on campus and are full of beautiful, fun and friendly women.

I was a recruitment counselor last fall and witnessed some truly horrible things said. I was far from shocked or even surprised, but I couldn't help being miffed. Several PNMs in my group started bragging about getting invited back to A, B and/or C, and conversely putting down D, E and F (the "bottom" tiers), going as to far to criticize the sisters themselves and make fun of them. Despite my efforts to try and correct them gently, it continued and resulted in several grief-stricken PNMs confiding in me that they felt really bad about not getting the "houses they really wanted" and might drop out altogether.

What was strange was that before the houses became so stigmatized, these same girls in my group seemed to genuinely like (as far as I could tell...I could be mistaken) D, E and F, and I'd watched them come out of said chapters with huge smiles on their faces. I'd also heard them praising the so-called "bottom tier" chapters...but as soon as the real tent talk began and the "top groups" started getting formed, suddenly PNMs' opinions took an odd and sudden turn for the worse. And as a result, potential sisters for the "bottom chapters" with less girls would start to drop. At the same time, I witnessed some of the bragging PNMs getting cut from their top picks and dropping out as well.

Now I realize that maybe these PNMs weren't right for Greek life, as some of my friends have suggested...I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the competitive recruitment process causes girls act out of character or feel like they're not themselves due to all the pressure. But regardless, I can't help feeling like tent talk and behind-the-scenes rankings are detrimental to Greek life in general.

Sorry for the essay! I just wanted to share my experiences and hear everyone's thoughts.

This happens at every school to some extent. Nothing anyone can do about it but choose to ignore it and concentrate on their own business.

It's also not hard to figure out your school. Before you start talking all over Greek Chat about how competitive your school is you probably should do a lot more reading about what that truly means in sorority recruitment.

[MaryPoppins]

Actually something can be done about, Local PHC and the Chapters can be genuinely and publicly positive about the Greek System. Lip service won't do. Of course it won't actually fix tent talk, but it can help balance out the messages that are received by PNMs. Saying nothing can be done is like saying we will never land on the moon.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

Actually something can be done about, Local PHC and the Chapters can be genuinely and publicly positive about the Greek System. Lip service won't do. Of course it won't actually fix tent talk, but it can help balance out the messages that are received by PNMs. Saying nothing can be done is like saying we will never land on the moon.

And putting it into practice. Saying "I have friends in all the sororities" kind of falls flat when PNMs see ABC sisters giving the death looks to XYZ sisters at parties.

It's pretty simple. If sorority members act catty, immature and mean, they will attract catty, immature and mean PNMs.

Other things that can be done to relieve tent talk: REVISE A TOO HIGH TOTAL. For the love of all that's holy. If your total is 150 and no one has been over 110 in 5 years, of course that's going to contribute to a bunch of worried and stressed out girls - and stress coming out in non-Panhellenic ways. Thankfully NPC has been more on the ball about this in recent years.

Get rid of (really in practice, not just in theory) the practice of taking little sisters or brothers (that is, women from sororities taking guys from the fraternities and vice versa). I've never heard of this making a Greek system stronger, just making the drama stronger.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Get rid of (really in practice, not just in theory) the practice of taking little sisters or brothers (that is, women from sororities taking guys from the fraternities and vice versa). I've never heard of this making a Greek system stronger, just making the drama stronger.

Is this really still widespread? I always felt it was more a case of getting a girlfriend involved in the pledge experience (in the case of Big Sisters to fraternity Pledges)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Is this really still widespread? I always felt it was more a case of getting a girlfriend involved in the pledge experience (in the case of Big Sisters to fraternity Pledges)

From postings on here, unfortunately, it seems it is.

[sdtennisgal]

It's pretty simple. If sorority members act catty, immature and mean, they will attract catty, immature and mean PNMs.

Get rid of (really in practice, not just in theory) the practice of taking little sisters or brothers (that is, women from sororities taking guys from the fraternities and vice versa). I've never heard of this making a Greek system stronger, just making the drama stronger.[/QUOTE]

1. (with the catty, immature and mean sisters): Unfortunately, those types of girls can put on a good face during recruitment, then "turn" nice girls once they are new members. I think we have all seen that.

2. Full disclosure: Back in the day, I was a Little Sister. On the positive side, I got to be friends with a number of girls from other houses via the Little Sister group, and a number of independant girls who chose not to go the sorority route. Our group was very laid back (...reflected the fraternity) and it really wasn't a "girlfriend's club." HOWEVER, particularly during my last two years, I saw how negative it could be, especially the competition to be named a Little Sister to the most elite fraternities on campus. One fraternity, in particular, was particularly cruel in the their process (i.e. announcing the new Little Sisters with all the girls competing for spots present at a dance...so they had to hang around for the rest of the night when they didn't get it in.)

We used to have a few weeknight "exchanges" just with other sororities (...no boys allowed) each semester that were very informal ("Hat Party with the DG's!" "Pizza Night wit ADPi") where everyone sat around and just chatted. Because they counted for participation points, we got good turn out, and because there was free food, the out of house girls (...including me my senior year) tended to swing by.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by sdtennisgal

2. Full disclosure: Back in the day, I was a Little Sister. On the positive side, I got to be friends with a number of girls from other houses via the Little Sister group, and a number of independant girls who chose not to go the sorority route. Our group was very laid back (...reflected the fraternity) and it really wasn't a "girlfriend's club." HOWEVER, particularly during my last two years, I saw how negative it could be, especially the competition to be named a Little Sister to the most elite fraternities on campus. One fraternity, in particular, was particularly cruel in the their process (i.e. announcing the new Little Sisters with all the girls competing for spots present at a dance...so they had to hang around for the rest of the night when they didn't get it in.)

We used to have a few weeknight "exchanges" just with other sororities (...no boys allowed) each semester that were very informal ("Hat Party with the DG's!" "Pizza Night wit ADPi") where everyone sat around and just chatted. Because they counted for participation points, we got good turn out, and because there was free food, the out of house girls (...including me my senior year) tended to swing by.

What I'm talking about is not what you're talking about - not the organized Little Sister groups. I'm talking about where Freddy Fraternity asks Patti Pledge to be his "little sister." Freddy's fraternity and Patti's sorority have nothing really to do with it - it doesn't align them in any way. Freddy's brothers may have "little sisters" from totally different sororities.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And putting it into practice. Saying "I have friends in all the sororities" kind of falls flat when PNMs see ABC sisters giving the death looks to XYZ sisters at parties.

It's pretty simple. If sorority members act catty, immature and mean, they will attract catty, immature and mean PNMs.

When negativity abounds, good people have to call it out or the negativity will grow. It's very much like political campaigning, you either get in the mud with the pigs or choose to stay out of the sty. Even with choosing to avoid getting in the mud, whenever mud is slung some sticks on the target. I would rather see astroturf pro-Panhellenic positivity than none at all because the alternative is far worse.

When you have gigantic house totals that just keep going up, then ALL of the houses have catty, immature, mean members to some extent. Staying on message, and a positive message, is the only way to combat that either internally or externally and stay true to our principles and values.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Other things that can be done to relieve tent talk: REVISE A TOO HIGH TOTAL. For the love of all that's holy. If your total is 150 and no one has been over 110 in 5 years, of course that's going to contribute to a bunch of worried and stressed out girls - and stress coming out in non-Panhellenic ways. Thankfully NPC has been more on the ball about this in recent years.

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

When you have gigantic house totals that just keep going up, then ALL of the houses have catty, immature, mean members to some extent. Staying on message, and a positive message, is the only way to combat that either internally or externally and stay true to our principles and values.

Yes. I think when most of the chapters on campus are under total, the Panhellenic environment becomes very competitive year-round as chapters are vying for PNMs via COB. It's easier for chapters to be nice to each other when they each feel secure in their individual situations.

However, I think members of the non-Greek and fraternity community are contributing to tent talk just as much, if not more, than the sororities themselves. From my collegiate experience, the most blatant examples of PNMs being told "these chapters suck, and these chapters are the only ones you should consider" came from fraternity men talking to freshman over the summer or in their first days on campus.

I think it's natural for PNMs who don't know any better to ask what chapters are good to join - after all, they just went through the college selection process where they took into account prestige of university, tuition costs, "Fit", etc.

Things that I think help:
1) Holding recruitment right when PNMs get to campus, so they have minimal time to absorb tent talk
2) Discouraging talking, texting, etc. between recruitment parties (tricky though it is)
3) Coordinating with IFC to encourage an "All Greek Together" policy - I don't know if this would mean a carrot or stick approach, or maybe both. I'm sure plenty of fraternities would like the sorority women to keep their mouths shut about reputation, too.
4) Better "expectations" programming during the orientation process. There was another thread about adjusting PNMs expectations, and maybe it could help.
5) Perhaps the Greek Advisor could make a concerted effort to subtly "talk up" the chapters that typically perform less well during recruitment to the PNMs. Or maybe present a little information about each chapter that shows each group in an amazing light - highlighting awards, involvement in on campus activities, fundraising totals, etc.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Yes. I think when most of the chapters on campus are under total, the Panhellenic environment becomes very competitive year-round as chapters are vying for PNMs via COB. It's easier for chapters to be nice to each other when they each feel secure in their individual situations.

However, I think members of the non-Greek and fraternity community are contributing to tent talk just as much, if not more, than the sororities themselves. From my collegiate experience, the most blatant examples of PNMs being told "these chapters suck, and these chapters are the only ones you should consider" came from fraternity men talking to freshman over the summer or in their first days on campus.

I think it's natural for PNMs who don't know any better to ask what chapters are good to join - after all, they just went through the college selection process where they took into account prestige of university, tuition costs, "Fit", etc.

Things that I think help:
1) Holding recruitment right when PNMs get to campus, so they have minimal time to absorb tent talk
2) Discouraging talking, texting, etc. between recruitment parties (tricky though it is)
3) Coordinating with IFC to encourage an "All Greek Together" policy - I don't know if this would mean a carrot or stick approach, or maybe both. I'm sure plenty of fraternities would like the sorority women to keep their mouths shut about reputation, too.
4) Better "expectations" programming during the orientation process. There was another thread about adjusting PNMs expectations, and maybe it could help.
5) Perhaps the Greek Advisor could make a concerted effort to subtly "talk up" the chapters that typically perform less well during recruitment to the PNMs. Or maybe present a little information about each chapter that shows each group in an amazing light - highlighting awards, involvement in on campus activities, fundraising totals, etc.

I agree with a lot of what you've said.

I don't think most people would know about this, but a few months before I started at USC, a girl posted on our College Confidential page asking about what the sororities were like, and a former, non-Greek SC student (female, and proud to admit that she's completely anti-Greek) posted reputations and generalizations about each and every Greek house, including a tier structure. Nothing good to say about any house.

I feel like, in the internet age, the tent talk happens the moment a girl chooses to go Greek and go NPC. I remember discovering GC and deciding that I wanted to rush. I was leaving on a family vacation the next day, and I remember googling "USC sororities" at some point on the trip. After the USC pages, up came a bunch of CC pages where people ranked the groups; GreekRank (please do not let this degenerate into another GR talk; I've had enough of them lately); and, finally, GC.

Now I really get concerned because my younger sister announced not too long ago that she'd consider rushing in college and she began researching Greek Life at the schools she's going to apply to this fall. Where did she land? GreekRank. It comes up too fast on search results.

It doesn't help that there are a lot of misconceptions about recruitment in general. I remember having a discussion with two girls at orientation. One asked the other, "which houses are you rushing?" To which the first replied with the "top tier" (gah I hate that) sororities at our school. The other said, "oh, same, but also ["upper middle tier" group--hate that, too]." When I said "I think I'm going to go through recruitment as well!" I kind of got that weird look when someone says they're going to do something that seems crazy to others and they dropped the subject. I wanted to say, "no, you're rushing ALL of them." *eyeroll*

This is getting long, so I'll sum it up fast: having gone through recruitment this fall, there was very little "tent talk," because we'd pretty much all heard it from Google before we even showed up on campus.